Talk:Ōkagami

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/c 18:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)



The Great MirrorŌkagami – The translation cited gives Ōkagami as the primary title and "The Great Mirror" as a subtitle. Additionally, it is part of a larger genre of "mirrors" in Japanese classical literature, most of which to the best of my knowledge have never been translated. These works do, however, have English Wikipedia articles named, respectively, Imakagami, Mizukagami, Azuma Kagami and Masukagami. Therefore, moving this page to Ōkagami would also allow for internal consistency. elvenscout742 (talk) 02:53, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

I can see this move being opposed based on a misreading of Google search results, so I should point out that while "McCullough" "Great Mirror" gets 101 hits on GScholar as opposed to only 25 for "McCullough" "Ōkagami", at least one of the hits for the former is actually about an unrelated work, and the non-macronned spelling rounds it out with 95 more. Additionally, if anyone else can think of a better qualifier keyword than the name of the translator, I think we would probably find a lot more reliable sources in English that call this work the Ōkagami and do not use McCullough's translation "The Great Mirror". elvenscout742 (talk) 03:00, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Support - known as "the Ōkagami" in English, usually without need for further parenthetical explanation. With or without move lead should be revised to have the usual name first and the English meaning after. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
I usually move the page first and ask questions later. ;-) elvenscout742 (talk) 04:40, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Maybe. Personally I would tend towards the sources-first approach, then worry or not about title. Although that was a perfectly acceptable WP:MOVE. Regards. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:08, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Collapsing discussion from sock of indef blocked editor
*Oppose - as per WP:ENGLISH. In addition, according to the Google Book Search, Okagami and O-Kagami is more common than Ōkagami.
"The Great Mirror" Fujiwara -Ōkagami: 100
"Okagami" Fujiwara -Great -Mirror: 73
"O-Kagami" Fujiwara -Great -Mirror: 19
"Ōkagami" Fujiwara -Great -Mirror: 9
(FYI, I'm not JoshuSasori's sockpuppet.) 123.225.78.110 (talk) 16:39, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't matter: we can't use the current anachronistic Modern English title. The number of variants of "Ōkagami" that are in use is irrelevant, since on English Wikipedia we use Hepburn romanization. To the best of my knowledge, I have never accused you of being JoshuSasori's sockpuppet, since to all appearances the above is your first edit. I think it would probably be a good idea for you to create an account (or get a stable IP if that's even possible) and make some edits to Wikipedia before casting votes on RM, because to everyone else you look like a WP:SPA. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Also, your Google searches just show that Google don't know how to spell, sinceBoth of the published English translations clearly use a macron on their covers and title pages.[1][2][3] Additionally, Keene's History of Japanese Literature uses a macron. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:22, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Please everyone just ignore the above IP. He is an obvious block-evading sockpuppet of User:JoshuSasori, who was indefinitely blocked for harassing me. Not only does the above IP have no prior edit history, but neither do any of his other aliases.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11] Additionally, JoshuSasori never showed any interest in classical Japanese literature until he followed me to Ugetsu Monogatari. elvenscout742 (talk) 01:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I have collapsed the above !vote by the IP sockpuppet of the indef-blocked editor JoshuSasori, who followed me here solely to vote against me. The only relevant content in the collapsed section was Both of the published English translations clearly use a macron on their covers and title pages.[4][5][6] Additionally, Keene's History of Japanese Literature uses a macron. elvenscout742 (talk) 03:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.