Talk:2006 Lebanon War

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Former good article 2006 Lebanon War was one of the Warfare good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Military history (Rated B-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Israel (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Lebanon (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lebanon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Lebanon on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 


Casualties in the lead[edit]

"The conflict is believed to have killed between 1,191 and 1,300 Lebanese people,[58][59][60][61] and 165 Israelis.[62]"

This is misleading, as the number of Lebanese people given is apparently civilian casualties, while 165 is the number of total Israeli nationals killed, mostly soldiers. An important aspect of this particular conflict was that most of the casualties of the war were Lebanese civilians and this should be definitely mentioned. I changed it to:

"The conflict is believed to have killed between 1,191 and 1,300 Lebanese people,[58][59][60][61] (mostly civilians) and 165 Israelis.[62] (including 44 Israelis)"

But I was reverted. --Z 07:41, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

See Casualties of the 2006 Lebanon War. The numbers are disputed, but according to some of the sources up to 760 of the casualties in Lebanon where militants. so per WP:NPOV you cannot write "(mostly civilians)" and discard the other positions. "between 1,191 and 1,300 people" is correct and does not contradict any sources. WarKosign 09:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
The general view of most third-party organizations is that most of the Lebanese killed were civilians. See this Reuters report, for only one instance. Of course, there are dissenting estimates, but they are much in the minority. Kingsindian   09:44, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
This "report" contradicts UN and Lebanese officials. WarKosign 09:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Which UN and Lebanese officials does it contradict? According to this AP report, Lebanon's Higher Relief Council, a government group, says the majority of those were Lebanese civilians. UNICEF also says most of those killed were civilians, and about a third of them were children. Kingsindian   11:10, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
The article you cited (Casualties of the 2006 Lebanon War) does not contradict the statement that most of the Lebanese casualties were civilians. I even checked the detailed numbers: there was no "760" (IDF estimated the militants killed 800, but lowered it to 600). The biggest number of militant casualties was "700" with the reference being http://www.kuwaittimes.net/navariednews.asp?dismode=article&artid=1677308013 -- a dead link. According to the article, 532 militants were identified by Israel, and estimates by Israeli military (600) is of course have less value here. Anyway, there is no need to discuss the numbers: the secondary (Western) sources, i.e. news agencies, which have assessed the tolls, clearly maintain the majority of casualties are civilians. --Z 11:36, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
Note that 600 refers only to Hezbolla militants. I summed all the militant casualties in Casualties of the 2006 Lebanon War - apparently including Israeli militants, which of course won't do. Without them Lebanese militants total up to 648, which is less than half of 1191, so your edit was correct. I'll restore it now. WarKosign 15:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
The sentence 'mostly civilians' contradicts numbers in the article itself:

Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)≤500 (Lebanese officials' est.) Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)500 (UN officials' est.) Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Amal militia: 17 dead Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)LCP militia: 12 dead Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)PFLP-GC militia: 2 dead Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)IRGC: ≈6–9 dead (Lebanese officials' est.) Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Lebanese Armed Forces and Internal Security Forces: 43 dead Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC)Lebanese civilians (combatants included) and foreign civilians: Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC) Dead: 1,191 (Amnesty International) Igorgwiki (talk) 12:23, 27 July 2016 (UTC) 1,109 (including 250 Hezbollah fighters)(Human Rights Watch) It means between (1191-580)/1191 = 51% and (1109-580)/1109=48%, so numbers says you're wrong ( I excluded IDF and Hezbolah numbers ).

Naming[edit]

Why is it called the Lebanon War, instead of the 2006 Israel–Hezbollah War which is much more neutral? Calling it the Lebanon War misleads people into thinking that it is a war of the Lebanese army. Mahaalia (talk) 13:40, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

The 1982 Lebanon war was not against the Lebanese army either. FunkMonk (talk) 14:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Industrial damage[edit]

I merged this section from Attacks affecting Lebanese industry in the 2006 Lebanon war‎ following its deletion closure (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Attacks affecting Lebanese industry in the 2006 Lebanon war) and there was a NPOV tag on it. I did some mostly cosmetic editing (list to prose stuff and so forth) so I have kept the tag. In my opinion the sources are not very broad and a little one sided. I am only doing this as part of cleaning out a backlog, and have no attachment to this section, so will leave any further edits up to those familiar with the topic and external wiki factors surrounding it. AIRcorn (talk) 09:31, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

At the moment the section is exclusively about damages to Lebanon's industries, not a single word about damages to Israel's industries. I wonder if it's easier to rename it to reflect the context and add a similar section for damage to Israel's industries, rather than trying to fix it.
Here: "Significant damage was also inflicted on infrastructure: sewage plants were damaged and, in some cases, sewage had to be released into the sea and atmosphere (by burning). Over 50 km of roads were damaged and 40 km² of natural woodland, as well as 2 km² of cultivated forest, were destroyed by fires caused by the missiles. All these clearly constitute civilian objects, which are protected from attack by international law, and whose destruction served no military purpose whatsoever." WarKosign 11:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Classification of dead as civilians or not[edit]

I have reverted this edit which removed the "mostly civilians" phrasing. I have also slightly modified the phrasing in the infobox which implied that there is anything contradictory in the fact that most people killed were widely reported to be civilians while the Lebanese government, in one particular report counted all of them as civilians. The reason is simple: the Lebanese government is not the only entity giving the reports and its classification system is not the only one used. Israel used its own, the UN used its own, AP used its own and so on. Even in the source cited the other figures are mentioned. Kingsindian   12:24, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Gotcha. I understand your reasoning. :) --Monochrome_Monitor 17:03, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 10 external links on 2006 Lebanon War. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:19, 18 September 2016 (UTC)