Talk:2011

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Readd Joplin tornadoes?[edit]

I think that the tornadoes in Joplin should be re-added. The death toll was very large, and was part of a large outbreak that killed 242 people. I think it makes sense to add this one line stating this occurred. --Xxhopingtearsxx (talk) 20:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

There was a previous consensus to exclude this here. You should get a change in consensus before including it. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 22:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
There doesn't seem to be much consensus there at all, seemed more like some disjointed (and at times rude and misinformed) conversation between a few editors, at least two of whom argued for inclusion. In addition, it seems like there seems to be some confusion (certainly understandable for non-weather-buffs) about the different tornado-related events that happened in 2011. There were two major tornado disasters in the United States last year:
  1. The April 25–28, 2011 tornado outbreak; specifically, the April 27 event
  2. The 2011 Joplin tornado of May 22
    • By a large margin the costliest single tornado on record ($2.8 billion)
    • Deadliest single tornado in the United States in over 60 years (~160 killed)
    • Meets 3-continent rule (BBC, News Limited, Mail & Guardian)
In my opinion a case could be made for both of these events to be included; they both meet the 3-continent rule, and both were world-record events with high impact both in damage and loss of life. However, I can understand there being hesitance to include two tornado-related events so close to one another, so if I had to choose, I'd choose the April 27 outbreak as it was a much more widespread event, and broke at least two records (costliest outbreak and most tornadoes in an outbreak). However, I believe that the Joplin tornado was covered much more widely (the BBC just did a 1-year follow-up piece). If it were up to me I'd include both, but I'd argue that at least the April 27 outbreak should be included. -RunningOnBrains(talk) 00:40, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but the qualifiers that have to be appended in order for these events to be special ("single-day", "single-tornado", "in-over-60-years" etc.) remind me of the cruft that fills the Guinness World Records books. The point is that both events were of strictly local influence, and they were of a "world record" scale simply because tornado outbreaks are almost exclusive to the States. They pale in comparison to really catastrophic weather events. Loss of life, while tragic, was several times lower than the rough threshold that seems to be the current consensus (on the scale of 1000 casualties), and damage needs to be put in perspective by acknowledging that we're talking about the world's strongest economy. A poorer and smaller country would definitely have to request international aid if the damage was this large, whereas the USA doesn't have a problem dealing with it alone. To repeat, it is my opinion that those events were local, with no international influence whatsoever, and thus do not merit inclusion here. 2011 in the United States of course, but they just aren't among the world's most important events for 2011. — Yerpo Eh? 07:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
As mentioned in the previous discussion, It was not the deadliest in the US and no where near the the deadliest in the world.
As for the cost, I am not sure this was the costliest, it depends largely of the adjusted $ value of where the tornado struck. The Daulatpur-Salturia Tornado might have cost +2bn in damage, (the article does not say).
I still think it should be excluded. FFMG (talk) 08:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
No one's claiming it's the deadliest in the world; I don't see how that's relevant. But if we're taking disasters and plopping them into other countries, I'm sure if you took the April 27 outbreak and put it in Bangladesh it would be the deadliest on record. I can see the arguments above for excluding the Joplin tornado, and I'm through pressing for inclusion of that one, but the April 27 outbreak was both the largest (by numbers) and most damaging (by cost) tornado outbreak in history. The "single-day" qualifier was included because it's hard to quantify exactly what constitutes a "tornado outbreak" (outbreaks aren't naturally contained to a single day), and because this article points out single dates not date-ranges. However, it was by almost any measure the largest tornado outbreak on record, whether you count the 200 tornadoes on April 27 or the 343 in 4 days (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/tornadoes/2011/13). Yes, tornadoes are naturally US-centric, and yes, I realize it sounds like I'm grasping at straws, and yes, maybe I'm biased because I study weather for a living, but it seems inconsistent to not include a world record disaster just because it occurred in the United States. -RunningOnBrains(talk) 13:13, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
noted already where they belong in United States article, EXCLUDE--68.231.15.56 (talk) 20:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I know this thread has not been active for a while, but I would like to point out that less significant tornadoes and outbreaks have been included in articles such as this. See April 26, 1991 May 3, 1999 February 5-6 2008, and arguably April 3-4 1974. The April 25-28 outbreak was larger, costlier, and deadlier than all of these. So would we advocate not listing any tornado related events that fall short of the Tri-State tornado or the Daulatpur-Saturia tornado? I added the latter to the 1989 article since the world's deadliest tornado is worth mentioning even if this outbreak is not. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Firstly WP:OTHERSTUFF applies. Secondly, 1991, 1999 and 1974 do not fall under the scope of recent years and the WP:RY criteria do not apply to them. Thridly, 2008 contains a mountain of material that does not belong in there, it is probably beyond help. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 04:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
So, out of curiosity, does that mean this event can be added in 2022? Also, the disaster guidelines are vague. Does this mean a disaster that only affects one country should not be added no matter how significant they are within a single country?TornadoLGS (talk) 04:54, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
This will never belong on this article, because they are a domestic event - the correct place is 2011 in the United States. RY criteria appear to apply to all Year articles edited live, ie. 2001-present.

RFC: Inclusion of Hurricane Irene[edit]

Should a blurb about Hurricane Irene be added to the article? The storm did $19 billion in damage in the United States, becoming the fifth costliest Atlantic hurricane on record. As such, it received coverage from four continents [1] [2] [3] [4] (WP:RY sets three as the standard). Note that this was previously discussed but that wasn't very decisive. Hot Stop (Edits) 03:47, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

No. It's a US-specific event with no international implications. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 04:34, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
EXCLUDE-I am currious - one and half years after the event you seek to add it - you dont think we have already discussed this issue here on the talk page?--68.231.15.56 (talk) 06:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
also i might add you are loosing hope of ever persuading me and i bet just about every other editor by warring on the page with reverts--68.231.15.56 (talk) 06:16, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Exclude - it's even more obvious now than before that the event wasn't important at all outside the USA, and even inside, the consequences were quite limited. Please stop adding it. — Yerpo Eh? 07:31, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Exclude -Low causalities, not significant impact. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:18, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Exclude - per Yerpo. United States Man (talk) 17:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Neutral - Is there a specific policy that says events that only affect one country should not be on the list? Even so, I see many country-specific events such as:
  • January 11 – Flooding and mudslides in the Brazilian state of Rio de Janeiro kills 903.
  • September 10 – Zanzibar ferry sinking: The MV Spice Islander I, carrying at least 800 people, sinks off the coast of Zanzibar, killing 240 people
  • January 24 – 37 people are killed and more than 180 others wounded in a bombing at Domodedovo International Airport in Moscow, Russia
Also note that these events did not receive significant media coverage compared to that of Hurricane Irene. JamesA >talk 00:15, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
From WP:RY:
Disasters, assassinations, and other crimes[edit]

Disasters of a global or near-global significance may be added. The importance of these disasters can be demonstrated through various international news sources. High death counts do not necessarily merit inclusion into the article. Likewise, assassinations or other similarly serious crimes can be listed if international relevance is demonstrated. Events such as suicide-murders, kidnappings, school shootings, etc. do not necessarily qualify unless especially significant.

Firstly WP:OTHERSTUFF applies, just becuase other events are included does not mean that this event should also be, rather that those events be discussed for exclusion. Secondly, the death tolls in the Brazil and Zanzibar events is significantly greater than that of Irerne. The Moscow bombing is not only not a disaster as the others are (and therefore hardly comparable), but involved multiple nationalities therefore having more international notability. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 05:01, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
None of those events should be included. People of different nationalities being involved doesn't prove international notability. The perpetrators of the 2011 England riots were of many nationalities, but the event is excluded because it had no siginificant international effect (apart from some visitors postponing their trips to England until after the riots were stopped). Jim Michael (talk) 18:20, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Added 2011 link for page support...[edit]

The link supports Wiki's 2011 content and is the only outside link currently on this page. GW... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garywest1111 (talkcontribs) 19:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

The link you added does not seem appropriate for this article as it is centred on pop culture while the article is concerned with historically notable events. DerbyCountyinNZ (Talk Contribs) 20:28, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Roberts Blossom[edit]

I'm not convinced he should be added to deaths here. He only had 8 articles and a small stub here before death. The requirement that he have 9 other-language Wikipedia articles probably doesn't apply this early, but the fact that there was little there before death possibly probably should apply. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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