Talk:2012 Summer Paralympics

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Comments[edit]

Once again we see the "Olympic" page with lots of nice graphics and a long article.....and the Paralympic page mentioning in passing that its happening.

Well in least there's six years left to improve this one. Check out 2008 Summer Paralympics which is just as small, but much sooner.--T. Anthony 14:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

I replaced the Olympic Games logo with the Paralympic Games logo, and deleted the caption which stated that the same logo would be used for both games. While the overall branding is identical, the Paralympic Games logo incorporates the logo of the International Paralympic Committee in place of the five Olympic rings. The title at the top of the infobox needs to be changed as well. The Paralympic Games do not use the "Games of the..." format; they should simply be referred to as the XIV Paralympic Games. I'd fix it myself, but the text seems to be buried somewhere in the infobox template and I'm not sure how to go about editing it. - Eron Talk 16:41, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Controversies over Atos Sponsorship[edit]

There should be at least a small section 'Controversies' section, mentioning the opposition of many disabled groups towards Atos sponsorship of the event - at least a link to the 'Atos' page on Wikipedia, where some 15 of the suicides attributed to Atos assessments by Coroner's juries are listed. They are well sourced national and local newspaper references, and would be of interest to anyone researching the background to the boycott of the Games by some high profile Paralympians from the UK and other countries.79.75.211.228 (talk) 16:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)DrLofthouse79.75.211.228 (talk) 16:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

For political balance, you should include a 'controversies' section, including the impending boycott of the games because 'Atos' are sponsoring the event, and have been implicated in causing numerous suicides by disabled former taxpayers. For example:

Two cases involving ex-British services personnel are poor Mr. David Sanderson of Southfield (<http://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/9215292.Dad_committed_suicide_after_housing_benefit_cut/>), and Army Veteran Mark and Helen Mullins of Bedworth(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8878543/Poverty-suicide-couple-had-warned-of-hopeless-situation.html)who committed suicide with his disabled wife .Then, there are the disabled suicides, like Paul Willcoxson, 33, of Corby, Northants, who according to his suicide note, was worried about benefit cuts when he hung himself in April. And Elaine Christian, 57, of Hull, who according to reports of an inquest in July, was worried about a meeting to assess her disability benefits. She was found drowned in a drain with ten self-inflicted cuts to her wrist and had taken painkillers <http://www.cloggie.org/proggold/2011/12/06/welfare-reform-kills/> in case she failed - really 'going for gold' on that one! The Taxpayer's burden was further relieved in March 2010, when Vicky Harrison, a 21-year-old, took her life with a massive overdose of drugs in Darwen, Lancashire. < http://wsws.org/articles/2011/may2011/suic-m18.shtml>. Another 10 benefit-cuts related suicides are:-

1. <http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/9095159.Jobseeker_took_own_life/> 2. <http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/no…s-leanne-chambers-72703-27003699/> 3. <http://news.scotsman.com/arts/Aut…suicide-39due-to-slash.6438473.jp> 4. & 5. <http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment…n/07/mother-suicide-welfare-state> 6. <http://www.thisishullandeastridin…/story-12927176-detail/story.html> 7. <http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investi…/2011/02/sick-who-gives-atos.html> 8. <http://www.guardian.co.uk/politic…rnment-reform-disability-benefits> 9. <http://www.consumeractiongroup.co…elp-me-take-Atos-and-DWP-to-court> 10. <http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-…ad-family-claims-115875-23147158/> 11. Addition to Deaths 4 & 5 Above. Mother was pregnant so her unborn baby died as well. http://www.thefreelibrary.com/PRE…TO+DEATH+HOLDING+SON.-a0213434697

Plus Larry Newman - a good example of a fatal misdiagnosis by Paralympic sponsors 'Atos' - see full story at <http://www.guardian.co.uk/society…l/24/atos-case-study-larry-newman>. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.103.26 (talk) 15:26, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

It looks like you have a solid bunch of sources, please go ahead and write a section about this issue, just be careful to maintain balance and WP:NPOV. Roger (talk) 08:31, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
I went ahead and made a Controversies section like the article for the 2012 Olympics, and put that part about the ticketing issues down there as well. ViperSnake151  Talk  23:35, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

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Paralympic Games #14 or #15?[edit]

In the first line of the article it says it is the fifteen P. Games, however in the infobox (and other articles it says its the fourteenth (XIV)? Could others please confirm. Thanks. Gargarale (talk) 14:49, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done - They are indeed the fourteenth games and not the fifteenth. WesleyMouse 17:37, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Text copied almost verbatim from Olympics article[edit]

While naturally there is a lot of overlap between the two articles, I find it quite jarring to find so many statements about the Olympics in this article. The word "Olympic(s)" occurs far more often in the article than "Paralympic(s)". The Public Transport section doesn't even attempt to address the issue of accessibility for people with disabilities, ignoring simple information such as whether the busses have wheelchair lifts or not. Paralympics attracts spectators with disabilities to a much larger extent than other sporting events, so curious minds want to know if spectator facilities have been planned for accessability too. Roger (talk) 11:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I have in fact, noticed this too. I actually did change the logo section to instead just say, essentially "The logo's the same as the Summer Olympics logo, but just colored differently. This has never happened before"; I might go over some of these sections and change them to include pointers toward the relevant sections in the Summer Olympics article, but put more emphasis on Paralympics-related content. ViperSnake151  Talk  02:17, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Individual Paralympic Athletes[edit]

Various people have removed the IPA flag from the list all stating that there are no entries from the Netherlands Antilles, thus implying that the IPA is used exclusively for competitors from that country/territory. This is patently not true and I cannot understand where that idea comes from. The IPA flag is in fact used for any entrants from any country that does not have a National Paralympic Commitee. The final list of all entrants has not been published yet so how can any editor predict that there will absolutely definitely be no competitors entered under that flag. So please leave the flag in the list until it becomes clear that there is or isn't anyone entered under it. I repeat - the flag is not assigned exclusively to the Netherlands Antilles. Roger (talk) 07:21, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

In fact the opposite is true. No flag should be added to the list until a competitor is confirmed as competing under it. Until one is the IPA flag (and those of any country yet to confirm an entrant) should be removed - Basement12 (T.C) 09:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Not the first paralympics in the UK.[edit]

These paralympics are not the first to be held in the UK, they are the first to be held in London, but the UK were the joint hosts of the 1984 Summer Paralympics. Jamc2 (talk) 19:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorted. Frans Fowler (talk) 00:39, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

But what I'm really trying to find out is why they hosted it as well. What exactly happened preventing them from doing events for spinal cord injuries in the U.S.? ViperSnake151  Talk  17:16, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Why shouldn't they? This might come as a shock to you... The United States is not the centre of the known universe. The whole Paralympic concept is originally from the UK so it makes far more sense to ask why did the UK not host the entire event - what motivated them to share it with the US? Roger (talk) 17:37, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I actually found out why, by the way; apparently the original host pulled out. Stoke Mandeville volunteered to host part of it because of their experience with the Stoke Mandeville Games. ViperSnake151  Talk  01:53, 21 August 2012 (UTC)


Calendar Gold Medals Totals don't add up![edit]

Minor I know! The total number of Athletics gold medals should be 168 (and not 166). Similarly, the total number of Table Tennis gold medals should be 12 (and not 29). Either that, or the day by day medal numbers are wrong. Many thanks! DaveMCrowley (talk) 16:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)DaveMCrowley

High priority redlinks[edit]

There are still two sports that don't have "Main" articles - Shooting at the 2012 Summer Paralympics and Powerlifting at the 2012 Summer Paralympics. Unfortunately I don't have the necessary skills to construct infoboxes and tables, so I'm asking for someone who knows how, to please create (at least the bare bones framework for) these articles as soon as possible. Roger (talk) 12:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Participating Nations[edit]

On the Participating nations section I have noticed the the list of countires is not compete and it also looks somewhat messy and could do with a few twigs and also to get all counties onto the list who so we have all 160 countries who are involed are competeing and also there are still only a handful of countries where they have their pages for the games at the moment conisdering the games are only ten days away now, I think we should do everything we can to make these paralympics the most detailed to date, I know its harder to get correct information for the paralympics but it still shouldnt be a problem. (MOTORAL1987 (talk) 11:52, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

I heard a tv news report in South Africa this morning mention that there are 162 countries participating. I just happened to hear it in passing so unfortunately I can't cite it. Roger (talk) 12:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
With only three days to go the official website still does not have a complete list of particpating countries, not to mention any significant details about each of them. Several sources mention numbers in the region of 160 but one can hardly find two sources to agree on an exact number. Roger (talk) 11:31, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I've begun to use the official website to indicate the number of athletes per country, and to add the countries missing until now in the list. It helps, but unfortunately even this isn't perfect: on the website, Bangladesh and the Republic of the Congo (not the DR Congo) are listed, but without any athletes. Which makes it unclear whether those two countries (and maybe others; I haven't gone through them all) are participating or not. Aridd (talk) 14:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I've completed the list - I left Bangladesh and Rep. of Congo off as not participating. This news report says the Bangladesh NPC is suspended and this one says Rep of Congo is suspended.
There are two problematic cases; Faroe Islands and Jordan - other sources confirm that they are participating but they are not (yet) listed on the official site. Roger (talk) 19:46, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
I think that like the 2012 Olympics page there should be a gobal map showing which countries are sending athletes along with a colour codes to show which countires are sending just 1 athlete and ect.(MOTORAL1987 (talk) 21:10, 28 August 2012 (UTC))

About the Sports section[edit]

I have a few questions about the Sports section. Firstly, what are the unexplained parenthetical numbers after each sport's name?

Secondly the links from the sport's name in some cases go to the general article about the sport and in others it goes to "<Sport> at the Summer Paralympics" - which is correct? I think the correct choice is "<Sport> at the Summer Paralympics" because it is more specifically relevant than the general article which covers events outside of the Paralympic Games itself. See for example the difference between Paralympic judo and Judo at the Summer Paralympics. Roger (talk) 13:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

They indicate the number of disciplines. Every other Olympic article has done that. ViperSnake151  Talk  15:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Surely you mean "events", not "disciplines". Take for example Boccia, it's a single disipline, but the singles, pairs, and team - in different classes make a total of seven events. Roger (talk) 19:56, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Sighted guides counted or not?[edit]

There are discrepancies in some of the team numbers. Some articles count sighted guides as competitors and some don't. The official team listings at www.london2012.com appear not to include them. We need to decide how to handle them consistently to avoid confusing our readers. Roger (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

They shouldn't be included here as the counts should be for athletes only. Where known the numbers (and names) of them should be included somewhere within the by nation articles, for example in the GB article I've entered "288 (plus 13 team members)" under the competitors parameter in the infobox. - Basement12 (T.C) 21:16, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
If the official website doesn't count them, I suppose we shouldn't. (Though it feels a bit odd to me. After all, they're entitled to a medal if they and the athlete they're guiding win.) (Nice work in filling in the athlete numbers and checking those two suspended NPCs, by the way!) Aridd (talk) 07:27, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
About the medals - yes the guide gets one too but it's not added to the country's "score" - it's like a team event, all the team members get a medal but it's counted as just one. Perhaps a solution for the guides would be to count them as team members but not as competitors? Roger (talk) 07:37, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
We're getting small changes to the numbers of athletes in the countries list. These changes are being made without citation or explanation. The size of the changes (around 2 or 3 added) lead me suspect that they are due to sighted guides being counted in some sources. We need to get this issue settled. Roger (talk) 10:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have an opinion about this? Roger (talk) 19:00, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Event Templates[edit]

I've created templates for all of the events in my sandbox if anyone would like to use them in the "X at the 2012 Paralympics" articles. Of course if you want to use your own you are welcome to do so as well. JoshMartini007 (talk) 18:31, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

That's a very useful page - it's easy to see which events don't have heats or semis. Please remove the icons from the section headings - according to WP:MOSHEAD images are not allowed in headings. They also interfere with the way screen readers work to present a section heading to users. That goes for all the articles that have these icons in the headings, please take them out. Roger (talk) 17:42, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Colombia Delegation[edit]

Acording to the Paraolympic Colombia Committe, the country will send 39 athletes and not 37. Please correct that information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.244.199.184 (talk) 00:53, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? I suspect the difference is probably due to sighted guides being counted differently but I would like to check that. (BTW there is no "o" in "Paralympic".) Roger (talk) 08:39, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Malawi Delegation[edit]

The Malawi team has withdrawn from the Games - see BBC article 29 Aug 12-122.57.237.163 (talk) 19:52, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The required amendments to the prose were done.
Now, are there any nations whose delegations appeared in the opening ceremony but did not compete at all? (e.g. a small team where they did not start (DNS)?) This distinction is important as the articles often say the delegations ".. were [sent] to compete ..". Before we can update the tense of statements like that, we need to ensure that their athletes did actually compete. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:10, 9 September 2012 (UTC)


notability?[edit]

I've seen a bunch of these athletes names popping up in articles. Is every paralympic athlete notable enough to be listed here at wikipedia? I'm not really sure of the protocol if someone wants to point me to it, but to put of hundreds of article stubs on things like Falkland Island javelin throwers seems way over the top in this English wikipedia. It's one thing to have him in a list of participants... but whole articles? Just wondering. Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:52, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

actually as I read further I see it was already answered in discussions and guidelines. Only paralympic athletes "who medal" are notable enough for an article. Exceptions of course for those very few who get lots of English press coverage... but at least I see where winning medals would slide an athlete into the notable category. Sorry to ask the query before I really dug into wiki protocol for an answer. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:34, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Split off broadcasting?[edit]

The broadcasting section should really be split off; some of it is not sourced well, and that kind of stuff could hinder our chances at having this promoted to GA (or maybe even FA; which would be a glorious achievement for the movement ... on Wikipedia at least.) ViperSnake151  Talk  16:15, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I've never really seen the purpose of these inevitably incomplete list sections of articles, which will always only reflect the interests of writers rather than readers. Some entries are just factual statements of who had broadcast rights, some contain more details of how the coverage occurred, and still others (e.g. USA) contain commentary on the coverage. All very inconsistent. And then there's the commentaries on British and "American" coverage (the latter actually only the USA) in the Controversies section. All very much reflecting the biases of our editors, rather than a global view. Not a good look. Even in a separate article this would still be pretty crappy content. HiLo48 (talk) 00:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
The "simple" list of which channels in which countries covered the events should be split off. The controversies about US and British broadcasting should stay - they generated considerable press interest and in the case of the (non)coverage by the US broadcaster criticism, including the IPC President's comments, was reported very widely. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:08, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
After the split, I was going to summarize it down to details on the major countries. ViperSnake151  Talk  15:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
How would you decide which are "major countries"and which aren't? Don't go there - see WP:Systemic bias for good reasons not to do it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:14, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
I meant by the countries we had the most details on from reliable sources that I could easily make into something detailed. ViperSnake151  Talk  17:06, 4 October 2013 (UTC)