Talk:2023 SEA Games

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Opening Ceremony of the 2023 Southeast Asian Games
Phnom Penh, Cambodia – 2023-5-5
End
Local Time
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Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2025 Southeast Asian Games which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:48, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Southeast Asian Games which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 08:00, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 May 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: The contention presented in this discussion is that the opposers argue that the abbreviation is too ambiguous while the supporters argue that this is still the WP:COMMONNAME. Consensus is that the proposal passes Recongnizability. Resorting policy-bound analysis of the proposal, per MOS:ACROTITLE, if we examine SEA through Acronym Finder or Abbreviations.com, both suggest that SEA overwhelmingly stands for South East Asia or even South East Asian Games.
This RMdisc is accepted and the result Move. (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 07:55, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Although "SEA Games" is the official name based on logo, it also the common name based on Google Trends (see: 1, 2, 3). The title doesn't need to be really descriptive, similar to World Series (only about USA and Canada). Hddty (talk) 09:45, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: SEA Games is abbreviation of Southeast Asian Games so no need for change in the name of the article/s
And
Generally multi sports are often known by host city or host nation and hosting year like Paris 2024 or Tokyo 2020 or Hangzhou 2022 so the trend is obvious WikiEdits2003 (talk) 03:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Page title should be based on WP:COMMONNAME, irrespective of whether it's an abbreviation or not. Hddty (talk) 08:07, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per my previous proposal in 2019. To quote,

    SEA Games is by far the most commonly used name (WP:COMMONNAME) for the biennial sporting event, both in the local and international press (i.e. the majority of third-party reliable sources) and in official (WP:OFFICIAL) uses by the organisation itself. It outnumbers "Southeast Asian Games" by several orders of magnitude in the English-language news sites of the region. See for example Google News search results for "SEA Games" vs "Southeast Asian Games",[1][2] or to be more specific, results from the Bangkok Post,[3][4] The Straits Times,[5][6] the Philippine Daily Inquirer,[7][8] and The Jakarta Post.[9][10] It is thus recognisable (anyone who knows the event would know it by this title), natural (everyone calls it as such), precise (no other similarly named events exist), and concise (it's short), per the WP:NAMINGCRITERIA.

    --Paul_012 (talk) 07:53, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Still oppose: As Paris 2024 is more common than 2024 Summer Olympics but still it supports five Wiki characteristics , By abbreviating the name of a multi sports event doesn't make any sense
    SEA Games and Southeast Asian Games is equivalent
    it's as obvious that non-wiki articles will use SEA Games as shorter name for the games WikiEdits2003 (talk) 08:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Considering your past requests, this request is same and all the discussion there is also reliable here WikiEdits2003 (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, but I can't make any sense of your arguments or see how your examples are relevant to this discussion, so please pardon the lack of response. Also, please don't make multiple bolded !votes—I've struck the one above. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:31, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME. The five WP:TITLE criteria are also met as there isn't ambiguity about SEA Games vs. Southeast Asian Games (unlike say Paris 2024 vs. 2024 Summer Olympics). SEA Games is still as WP:PRECISE and more WP:CONCISE than Southeast Asian Games. It being the official name on branding just adds the cherry on top.EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 11:29, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - above reasoning makes sense to me. If it fits policy, let's get it done — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 18:12, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose show that each edition of the Games is better known as "SEA" instead, not just the 2023 edition. Each edition would need to be checked to see its relevant name per the context of the particular Games, just as how other Games change as times go by. -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 07:16, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds to me like this is not an outright oppose, but a conditional support. — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 04:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ofcourse you need to see the past trend too WikiEdits2003 (talk) 11:43, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, if only some of the games were titled SEA Games, it would be inconsistent to make only some of them "SEA Games" and the others "Southeast Asian Games". If they are, in fact, inconsistent in real life, we should have a discussion about what is the best overall choice. EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 19:00, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Page titles should be as descriptive as possible to enable readers unfamiliar with the topic to access them. This is important as acronyms are often very similar to each other - although the World Wide Fund for Nature is almost always seen in the form 'WWF', the term has several other unrelated meanings (as can be seen at WWF). A move would bring these pages into 'conflict' (for want of a better word) with all the other articles at Sea (disambiguation). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.150.98.50 (talk) 01:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is irrelevant. SEA Games is not ambiguous to anything else. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:35, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Pages should be as obvious as possible with no acronyms. LionsX (talk) 04:06, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you cite a particular guideline or policy to support this reasoning? "Obvious" is a subjective term, and I've never heard of a "no acronyms" rule. — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 04:17, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose More obvious to the casual reader if written in full. Suitable abbreviations are already included in the start of the prose. Plus any change would require proof that all editions are commonly (and predominantly) known as such. Completely different to the World Series which is such a major event, far larger than anything else with a similar name. Bs1jac (talk) 14:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What's the world series? You can't assume people know the same things as you EmeraldRange (talk/contribs) 19:01, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to the original comment that SEA doesn't need to be more descriptive similar to the World Series. I feel that "SEA" DOES need to be more descriptive. (PS: I know virtually nothing about the world series, other than it is the biggest baseball event). Ignoring that aside, my point is that Southeast Asian Games should be written in full, in my opinion, because that is what they are, and "SEA Games" doesn't mean much to a casual reader. Bs1jac (talk) 19:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"SEA Games" does mean much to a casual reader though, as shown in Google Trends data and reply above by Paul_012. Hddty (talk) 05:14, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am pretty sure nobody I know from outside the region would instantly know what SEA means. As mentioned by Lugnuts in the previous discussion, it sounds like some kind of watersports. Personally greatly prefer it written in full as per the previous discussions, clearer, more descriptive, etc. Don't see any reason for a different outcome this time than on previous attempts, and wonder how many times it is going to be attempted (and then attempted in reverse in years to come), but whatever the admins decide is fine. Bs1jac (talk) 09:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are no watersports or its kind with similar page title so I don't think that readers would got confused by the title. In other sporting events I don't think that readers who is unfamiliar would instantly know what its title means: World Series (what series?), Division Series (what division?). Hddty (talk) 09:47, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Straying into WP:WHATABOUT here, but to counter, those examples are not comparable as they are not abbreviated. There is no longer name for the World Series (that I know of). Bs1jac (talk) 11:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While there's the possible argument regarding recognisability to those unfamiliar with the topic, I'd say it runs opposite in terms of recognisability for people who are at least a bit familiar with the topic. Anyone who's heard of the event is much more likely to recognise the name SEA Games than the full name, a bit like the case with NASA and UNESCO. I'd say it's comparable to NBA and NFL, whose season articles use the abbreviation, though the main articles are admittedly at the full name. --Paul_012 (talk) 19:52, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also take examples of USA UK GB EU etc WikiEdits2003 (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Some small things use abbreviations (like V.League 1 instead of Vietnamese Professional League) even Southeast Asia is AFF Championship instead of ASEAN Football Federation Championship, and ASEAN instead of Association of Southeast Asian Nations, if you talk about the "unfamiliar reader" or "causal reader" you should reconsider if AFF Championship should be renamed or moved to ASEAN Football Federation Championship, too. Or you can change your decision about this. I agree that some articles should be renamed, but as this related to AFF Championship and ASEAN, and also many opposes, so I choose support this Chuanchauau (talk) 12:09, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per @EmeraldRange Rumahkedua (talk) 13:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Constant gold medal inflating by User Indonesiainfo24[edit]

Dear @Indonesiainfo24, I don't know why you keep reverting my edit at the medal table by constantly inflating gold medal harnessed by Indonesian athletes. Per source, which you could look at here -> https://games.cambodia2023.com/#medalstanding, Indonesian contingent has 56, not 57 gold medals, along with 53 silvers and 72 bronzes respectively.

I am assuming a good faith and personally thank you for your kind contribution. However, I find your very edit of the medal table is a bit odd. If I could ask, do you have other resources that back up the number you keep constantly edit?

Thank you so much, greetings from Jakarta. Mfikriansori (talk) 16:33, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This belongs on that user’s talk page. — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 17:12, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the very same issue on his/her/their talk page. Yet till now, I received no answer and the said user @Indonesiainfo24 keep inflating the number of gold medals earned by Indonesian contingent. He repeatedly reverted our edit that based on said primary source.
Is there anything I could do or address regarding this matter? I am sorry for being rude, but the way he/she/they ignored the source and enforced his/her/their edit is disturbing. Thank you. Mfikriansori (talk) 15:31, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe report it at WP:AN/I? Or if their behavior fits the description of edit warring, use WP:AN/EW instead. — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 06:21, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The govt of Cambodja bring down the number as shown in their website. Indonesian official from the office of Minister of Youth has much higher gold number complete with the list. All people complaining about the wrong number from the Cambodja govt. It is the same as no respect to the Athletes. They will complain to IOC. Danfisitb (talk) 03:07, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we would need a reliable source in order to use those numbers -- and actually a more reliable source, along with a source for why the official numbers are wrong. — Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 04:52, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The medals from Cambodia website were not corrected. We got the numbers from all media including the minister of youth and sports in Indonesia. If you click Indonesian team, there is the correct list. You can count by yourself. Danfisitb (talk) 05:20, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is no attempt to sabotage the medal tally. Medals are updated periodically after the medal ceremony hence the medals are sometimes delayed (eg: women's 5x5 basketball). I understand there are a lot of controversies to the Indonesian team but try really check the other teams' medals too. The only discrepancy in the medal tally is the pencak silat women's tanding Class B, where it was decided to award two gold medals (upgrading Indonesia to gold) but this has not been updated on the site. Griff88 (talk) 13:15, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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