Talk:Abashevo culture

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Map[edit]

We should have a map of the extent of the Abashevo culture. I believe J. P. Mallory printed one in his book Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. Krakkos (talk) 14:14, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HJJHolm (talk • contribs) 6 march 2021 (UTC)

Chariots??[edit]

User:Krakkos copied diff from Allentoft et al. (2015) the sentence, "the Abashevo culture is notable for its metallurgical activity and early use of the chariot." However, the source for that given in Allentoft, (39 Meyer/Kirchner (2010), Illumina Sequencing Library Preparation for Highly Multiplexed Target Capture and Sequencing) neither contains the word "Abashevo" nor "chariot". Having written a whole book (" The earliest wheel finds ... )(before 1900 BC), I never encountered a chariot find in Abashevo, in contrast to Sintashta.HJJHolm (talk) 09:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Allentoft et al. (2015):

West of the Urals, stretching through the forest-steppe zone into Eastern Europe we find a related sister culture, called the Abashevo Culture, which also relied on chariots.

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating what I wrote in citing a secondary literature is no argument at all. I meanwhile contacted the author of the sentence, who could neither remember it nor give any attestation for "early" use of the chariot in the Abashevo. I studied for years the literature of early wheels and wrote a peer-reviewed book about it. There are no chariots in the Abashevo before the turn of the 2nd to 1st millennium. So, bring a new primary attestation or keep out of here, please. Thank you.HJJHolm (talk) 15:08, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I again checked the refs: Also Chechuchkov did NOT MENTION even e single chariot in Abashevo. I wonder which ignorant again re-enterd this nonsense!HJJHolm (talk) 13:58, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

According to Kuzmina (2007)

"The classification of cheek-pieces and the establishment of their evolution permits us to establish the origin of the disc-shaped cheek-pieces and their chronology. The most archaic disc-shaped cheek-piece was amorphous and undecorated of Type I and derived from contexts of the Catacomb-Multi-roller Ware and Abashevo cultures from the Ukraine to the Urals. This permits us to attribute the first controlling of chariots with cheek-pieces to tribes of the Abashevo and Multi-roller Ware cultures (KMK=Kul'tura Mnogovalikovoy Keramiki)"

Kuzmina, Elena E. (2007). Mallory, J. P. (ed.). The Origin of the Indo-Iranians p.120

According to Chechuskov and Epimakhov (2018):

"In the Don–Volga interfluve, the latest variant of Abashevo is often referred to as the Pokrovka type ... The Abashevo culture and the Pokrovka type are often seen as, respectively, the formative and terminal periods of the same cultural complex, which is, in general, the continuation of the Corded Ware culture ... Pokrovka graves provide notable but indirect evidence of wide utilization of wheeled transport. Bones of domesticated horse are found in both burial and domestic contexts, which suggests that the horse was a draft animal. More direct evidence is provided by the studded elk-antler cheekpieces—the earliest artifacts of this kind in Eastern Europe ... In sum, the Pokrovka phenomenon is often seen as an important part of the ‘chariot horizon’, which represents a rapid extension of the chariot complex to the vast areas of Northern Eurasia. ... chariot technology likely developed before the year 2000 BC in the Sintashta homeland, which is the Don–Volga interfluve … Thus, they were invented in the context of the pre-Sintashta cultures and fully developed during the Sintashta period."

- Chechushkov et al. 2018, Eurasian Steppe Chariots and Social Complexity During the Bronze Age Ario1234 (talk) 01:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Language[edit]

Nobody can "identify" a died-out and unattested language. That there are arguments for that view - c'est une autre chose.HJJHolm (talk) 15:16, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]