Talk:Aberfan disaster

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"Precognition" section shouldn't be there[edit]

I don't see any reason for it to be there, or if it remains, it should be re-written. As it is, it seems like it endorses the idea that precognition exists. It should at least be re-written to say there were claims about precognition in connection with it, not "apparent predictions" which is a silly, and non-neutral term. And anyway, if they lived in a town overshadowed by a huge pile of rock, why wouldn't people tend to dream about it falling? Less precognition than common sense.

I think it makes the article and Wikipedia less credible for this even to be on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.2.218.145 (talk) 04:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree. The precognition section is embarrassing for several reasons, not least for the "citation needed" for every piece of alleged evidence. whok (talk) 05:44, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I just deleted the precognition section.whok (talk) 05:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

It's very simple. There was a psychiatrist studying reports of precognitive experience who advertised in a newspaper for people to write in and tell him if they'd had any about this incident. He got sixty responses and wrote it up in the Journal for the Society for Psychic Research.[Barker, J.C. "Premonitions of the Aberfan Disaster." Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, December 1967: 168-181.] This organization is devoted to serious investigation and is as much CSICOP as Rhine Institute. They were the ones who blew the whistle on Madame Blavatsky's fakery at Adyar. I'll abide by the wishes of previous editors not to insert any mention of it at this time, but I say it belongs there. It's very easy to write these things in an encyclopedic manner. Many Wikipedia editors have considerable experience learning to write about claims or reports of perceived paranormal events. People are going to come to this page looking for the story of Eryl Jones and it's better that they get the truth from here. --Bluejay Young (talk) 18:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I quite agree. To exclude any mention of precognitions on the basis that they are pseudo-science is itself a POV. Whether real or imagined, their notability for this encyclopedia arises from the fact thet they have been reported widely, inclusing in a learned journal. The "local dream effect" certainly cannot explain them all. Eysenck and Sergent in their 1993 Explaining the Unexplained report on the woman in Sidcup who dreamt about the disaster seven days before it happened (confirmed by two witnesses) and on the woman in Aylesbury at the spiritualist meeting two days before the disaster (confirmed by one witness). If the topic does not deserve a full section, then I think it should certainly be covered in a footnote. 109.149.205.234 (talk) 18:29, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Corporate scandal?[edit]

Why is this categorized as a corporate scandal? The NCB was a state institution at the time was it not? Or is there no such thing as "nationalised industry scandal" in the author's mind?

What was the justification for these deletions? I propose to revert soon unless somebody explains them. PatGallacher 12:00, 2005 May 25 (UTC)

Test edit / vandalism / delete key ran away with him. Duly reverted. Hajor 13:53, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
Hmm, right now there are "see alsos" to corporate crime and corporate scandal. Hey, I'm a total leftie, but the coal industry at that time was a state operation, right? Someone, anyone, be bold and remove them, perhaps even replace with "government crime" and "government scandal", or even "government incompetence"? Huw Powell (talk) 06:27, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Removed. I don't think any of these are appropriate for see alsos. Rockpocket 06:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Suggested merge[edit]

Anyone object to merging Pantglas Junior School into this article? I think most people know the name Aberfan, rather than the name of the school. Carcharoth 16:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Agreed. Both seem to cover the same topic. --Quiddity 03:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I would eventually prefer to see two articles - one on Aberfan, and one on the Aberfan disaster. I am happy that the two presently merge, as both have details relevant to the disaster, cover the same grounds, and would produce a better article merged to cover the disaster. Rgds, - Trident13 14:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Agree with Trident13. --Tombomp (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Given the apparent consensus and the length of time since this discussion was added to, I have gone ahead and merged the articles. Euryalus (talk) 06:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Max Boyce[edit]

Much as I appreciate the sentiment of putting the lyrics here, it's a fairly clear copyvio. The Wednesday Island (talk) 14:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC) l —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.230.58 (talk) 17:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Weight of material?[edit]

The reports about the weight and volume of material that were involved contradict. 40,000 cubic metres of material, weighing around half a million tonnes... Hmm.. the density of Colliery shale is approximately 1.7 tonnes per cubic metre. This means, that if the volumes are correct, that the weight of the material to arrive in the village was 70,000 tonnes and not the 'half a million tonnes' quoted by the South Wales Police site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgb2 (talkcontribs) 15:14, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Point taken. I'm amazed that anyone would know the density of Colliery shale -- that's impressive and a little scary. I've reverted the passage to quote only the volume of material cited in McLean and Johnes' account. Thanks.

Dunks (talk) 01:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Paragraph does not make sense.[edit]

The pupils of Pantglas Junior School had arrived only minutes earlier for the last day of term. They had just left the assembly hall, where they had been singing "All Things Bright and Beautiful", when a great noise was heard outside. Had they left for their classrooms a few minutes later, the loss of life would have been significantly reduced, as the classrooms were on the side of the building nearest the landslide.

This paragraph doesn't make sense. Shouldn't it be rewritten as it confuses readers on how many minutes and where the children where at the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.19.72 (talk) 19:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why not? If they had left for their classrooms later they wouldn't have got to them by the time the landslide hit, so they wouldn't have been on the dangerous side of the school. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
You're missing the point - the paragraph doesn't make it clear where the children (and teachers - not mentioned) actually were. They hadn't "just left the assembly hall" but were in their classrooms - they had "just arrived in their classrooms". "the loss of life would have been significantly reduced" - the author doesn't know this for certain, It's conjecture. "the loss of life might have been significantly reduced" would be better. Supporting this is the fact that most survivors were found in the part of the school furthest from the slide. It wasn't a landslide - it was material from a collapsing colliery spoil-heap. Rambler24 (talk) 14:10, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Aberfan[edit]

The page 'Aberfan' should be about the village while a page with a title such as 'Aberfan mining disaster' should be used for the disaster. This page has no information about the village history and the village today. Mtaylor848 (talk) 14:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Agree, it seems like a good idea to split.--Commander Keane (talk) 23:54, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Agree with a split, though as it stands there is very little remaining for the village article. Probably a short summary section for the disaster with a {{Main}} template pointing to the spin off article would help cover things and give some substance to the village article. Keith D (talk) 12:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Agree with the above. DBaK (talk) 13:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
What would the title of the new article be? Does that one suggestion do it, or is there a format to follow or what? DBaK (talk) 13:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
The disaster was referred to at the time as "The Aberfan Disaster", locally, nationally, in the media., and in the government enquiry and report on the incident, precursors and aftermath. I'd suggest that as a starting point. Google generates 15,6000 hits for "aberfan disaster", but only 821 for 'aberfan "mining disaster"' I'd be willing to expand the new Aberfan stub. I lived out my school years in the village, have relatives in the area, and believe I could put some flesh on the bones, Rambler24 (talk) 10:58, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
I suggest Aberfan disaster is the best name. It's what it's usually called, and there's a precedent with e.g. Gresford Disaster and Flixborough disaster. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Is that 15,600 hits or 156,000 hits? Either way, the title i suggested (1966 Aberfan disaster) was based on what some other articles are named although seems to be no set way disasters should be titled. Simply south (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
I don't think starting with the date will make it easier to find - I like just Aberfan disaster as suggested above - common name and all that? DBaK (talk) 22:04, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Probably best and agree. Simply south (talk) 22:26, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
There also isn't another Aberfan disaster to cause confusion, so the year is rather unnecessary. Totnesmartin (talk) 22:34, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

(Outdent) As most of the page is on the disaster it is probably best, from an attribution point of view, to move this page so that the history remains intact. Though we would loose history on the redirect from the merge in 2004. The village article can then be started as a new article. Keith D (talk) 23:22, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I think i oppose the move and suggest the merge. Maybe the problems could be sorted with a Hist merge? Simply south (talk) 23:45, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Can you explain what you are suggesting as there is nothing to merge to. I do not think that a hist merge is feasable because of the parallel versioning as I looked to see if it could be merged when I realised there was a history on the redirect. Keith D (talk) 12:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned. BTW it was 15,600 hits (I have a keyboard with a mind of its own - lame excuse for a typo I know, but it's the best I can do). I concur with the name being changed to simply "Aberfan Disaster". The date is unnecessary - it may imply that there were others (god forbid). Rambler24 (talk) 09:26, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The other similar articles have "disaster" in lower case, the Gresford Disaster, quoted above, is just a redirect to the lower case version. Keith D (talk) 12:10, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
"Disaster" should be lowercase in all titles, unless it's a book called Gresford Disaster or something. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Looks like clear consensus. Anyone gonna do it? Folks at 137 (talk) 23:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Because of the extreme consensus, and yes, extreme; i am going to do it now. I am moving the page to Aberfan Disaster and removing some of the town info at the top. And I will restart the town page with all of the town info that would be at the top of the new page. (hopefully I haven't lost anyone at this point) --MWOAP (talk) 00:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I've made a couple of mistakes in performing this requested move, my apologies for the dog's breakfast of an edit history that resulted; my understanding is that you all wanted the page to be at Aberfan disaster and that is where it now is, along with its associated talk page. Currently Aberfan redirects there, but this can certainly be changed to be a stub about the village if that's what's wanted. I noted that Jimbo himself requested that the talk page material formerly at Aberfan disaster be deleted, and I've done that, which made things a lot easier in getting this talk page into place. If there is anything that I have bollixed up by misunderstanding what was wanted, please accept my apologies; feel free to leave me a note and I'll be glad to fix it. Accounting4Taste:talk 01:50, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Where did Jimbo request that or was it on the talk page of the redirect? Thanks for this above. Simply south (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
It was on this page (Talk:Aberfan disaster), which I deleted to make room for the material at which you're looking. If you're curious, in November 2003 he asked for a definition of "coal tip" as follows: "Since this is such a minor comment, I recommend that it be removed once my question has been answered. What is a 'waste tip'? What is a 'tip' in general? Something containing enough water to kill people, and perhaps someing to do with coal mining? Is there a different term for this in American English? --Jimbo Wales" His question was answered; I rarely interact with Mr. Wales but wanted to be respectful and decided to honour his wishes, which frankly made my life easier in that I didn't have to merge the talk pages. <grin> Considering the mess I've already made, you may think that was a good idea!! Accounting4Taste:talk 17:42, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

My history work on this page[edit]

My aim on Wikipedia is to preserve as much page history as possible. I found both the article and talk page of Aberfan disaster in the deleted edits of Conversion script. Without reading any of the discussion above, I decided to rectify this problem by moving the old history at Aberfan disaster to Talk:Aberfan disaster/Old history and moving the old talk page to Talk:Aberfan disaster/Archive 1. I don't believe that any talk page comments should be removed unless they're personal attacks, even at the request of the author, even if the author is Jimbo Wales. When Jimbo Wales wrote that comment in 2001, archiving of talk pages was almost unheard of, and things have changed a lot since then. He made a constructive comment which I think should be part of the historical record. Graham87 18:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Coordinate error[edit]

{{geodata-check}} The coordinates need the following fixes:

  • Write here

The correct coordinates for the Aberfan Disaster are as follows:

51°41'41.07"N 3°20'50.56"W

This can be verified on Google Earth, where these cordinates correspond to the disaster memorial site. 24.78.207.64 (talk) 00:18, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. The co-ordinates were set when the article represented the place as well as the disaster. When the article was split the co-ordinates were not adjusted. Keith D (talk) 00:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Popular culture[edit]

"Aberfan" by Rhys Morgan (whose father was one of the men who helped digging and whose mother lost a brother in the tragedy).

What? Is it a song, a book, or a chewing gum flavour? How about saying "uncle" instead of mother-brother? Do people even read what they type? Derekbd (talk) 05:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Added "Palaces of Gold" by Leon Rosselson - frequently sung in the folk world & covered afresh on at least 2 albums by important UK / internationa folk artists this year (Martin Simpson on "Vagrant Stanzas" and Lady Maisery on "Mayday") Andy mellor (talk) 10:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

A town lost 100 children and no riot?[edit]

Where is the info about the studies on how they dealt with the disaster without murdering any of the perpetrators? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.123.137 (talk) 08:06, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

What studies? The people around there dealt with their grief with the quiet dignity that was their normal response to mining disasters, however caused. If you can find any such studies by all means quote them. And sign your posts (add 4 x ~ at the end). Britmax (talk) 08:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Beatles declined to do a benefit for the Aberfan disaster[edit]

I recall reading that in newspaper microfilm, and this added to rumors that the Beatles were splitting up. You may notice this comes not long after the Beatles had stopped touring. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 14:21, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

What!? The Beatles splitting up!? That would have been a real tragedy, wouldn't it. 86.147.200.157 (talk) 16:47, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

If I go on further about this regarding the Beatles, I'll be off-topic regarding the Aberfan disaster. There is a Wikipedia entry about the Beatles in 1966, so I will copy the above remark (about declining to do Aberfan benefit) to talk page there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 16:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Date of Spectator article[edit]

You mention "Aberfan: Under the Arc Lights," in The Spectator, October 10, 1966. If that date is correct, it was several days before the disaster, unrelated to it, and therefore suitable for the Wiki page on Aberfan as a village, not the disaster itself. 109.157.20.13 (talk) 19:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)