Talk:Abigail Williams (band)

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Metalcore[edit]

In this very biography (history) it mentions that they mixed symph black and metalcore? so why the revert? If there is any reason not to include then say so. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ kaiden 22:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Apparently they don't like the tag metalcore on this article. Zaruyache (talk) 01:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I've read both review's listed and nothing tells me that this band was ever metalcore. Thus it is not a proper tag for this band. Undead Warrior (talk) 04:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe the band themselves put the metalcore thing down to their drummer in the early days - an element of their sound, but not really a genre that the band worked in, and not a description that they consider accurate, for what that's worth.--Michig (talk) 07:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
The Terrorizer article describes their Legend EP as "core-laden symphonic black metal", so there was an element of metalcore but it wasn't a metalcore record. Sorceron's view: "every once in a while there was a general hardcore feel to something. When we first started we had a hardcore drummer. A lot of it comes down to who you got playing with you". The article ends with "If there's criticism of where AW are circa 2008, perhaps it's that without the 'core, are they just another symphonic black metal band?". --Michig (talk) 07:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Then with that said, the infobox should not say metalcore. Undead Warrior (talk) 08:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Agreed.--Michig (talk) 08:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Blackened death metal?[edit]

Reliable source needed or this goes too.--Michig (talk) 19:26, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Goes too, just symphonic black metal. But I think this is perhaps more appropriate: melodic black metal (Melodic black metal is a style of black metal. Much of the characteristics of "traditional" black metal are retained (shrieked vocals, fast tempos, high pitched electric guitars often played with tremolo picking) but it differs in several key elements. Generally it is less abrasive, more melodic and thus more accessible for mainstream audiences. Electric guitars are often played with much less distortion and guitar solos are more common. Songs are often written in conventional structures and there is more usage of keyboards and other instruments.).--Cannibaloki 19:34, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
We have several reliable sources describing the band as symphonic black metal and none that I am aware of describing them as anything else, so I see no need for the use of any other genre's in describing the band in the article.--Michig (talk) 20:52, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
So, fine.--Cannibaloki 22:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Deathcore?[edit]

how r they deathcore some1 explain because their black metal (Seth4000 (talk) 12:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)) Seth4000

Because they're not black metal, and you clearly don't know what black metal is. 68.3.117.245 (talk) 01:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I can promise you that they're not kvlt in the least. rzrscm (talk) 08:05, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

they are definitely not deathcore and their second full length doesnt have keyboards as far as i know so their probably going regular black metal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theshaz23 (talkcontribs) 17:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Tour 2009 EP[edit]

I can't find any information on this record, but it exists. I had to use Amazon.com as a reference since they published the release date (corroborated on other MP3 sites). The EP artwork is an alternate cover for In the Shadow of a Thousand Suns, so I can only infer that this EP is demo quality of the two-disc Thousand Suns two-disc special edition slated for a 2010 release. Again, no information that I can find. –Kerαunoςcopia 11:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

New album almost completed[edit]

Small article here. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 09:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

metalcore[edit]

Can it be mentioned that they started out as a metalcore band, and continue to be a metalcore band with black metal elements? Can it also be mentioned that they use programmed drums and autotune on their recordings? Why try to claim that they're black metal when they're clearly not? Can it also be mentioned that Ken used to play in industrial-rock bands and wear a dress on stage before deciding that he was "metal"?68.3.117.245 (talk) 01:39, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

If a reliable secondary source says any of those things, it can be used. If it's just your opinion, then no, it can't be mentioned. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 19:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not my opinion, it's fact...However, I do understand that I have to have sources to back them up, so I'll find some. 68.3.117.245 (talk) 19:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I know Sorceron posts at ultimatemetal.com. Although forums/messageboards are not considered reliable sources, the exception is if the post is actually by the band or band member; it's then considered self-published (WP:SELFPUB). That may help you in your search as well. As for citing messageboards, I'm still struggling with that one. I think the {{cite web}} template is about the only thing you can use for now. There used to be a {{cite messageboard}} template (it even asked for the post #), but a couple of recent discussions held elsewhere have turned up nothing. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 20:14, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
http://candlelightrecordsusa.com/v2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57
As far as the band's metalcore roots, he pretty much says it in this interview, but I don't know how to incorporate this information into the article...I'm having trouble finding more information than this. He seems to like to deny it although I've been in the Arizona music scene long enough to know.
http://www.noisecreep.com/2009/09/21/abigail-williams-ken-sorceron-reveals-the-origins-of-his-black
Here, he reveals his last name to be Bergeron. Ken Bergeron was the guitarist of Victims In Ecstacy...The Associated article states that "to stand out and differentiate themselves from other local bands in the area they often sported dresses and wore make-up onstage."
68.3.117.245 (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
The infobox citation works for now, I think. An explanation in prose would be preferred. In your first link (Candlelight), Sorceron admits the metalcore label may have influenced their first full-length album's sound. That's pretty important I think, and it doesn't necessarily deny the actual genre label. Since Sorceron doesn't label himself (or the band) as metalcore, the genre is okay to use (bands self-labeling themselves as a specific genre is considered unreliable and not acceptable here). You can incorporate the info in a relevant area in the article, however you want. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 22:13, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Alright, I incorporated it into the article and cited it...It looks good, I think. 68.3.117.245 (talk) 00:45, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Ken Soceron or Bergeron?[edit]

Did he change his last name by law to Sorceron? If not, he needs to be listed in the article as Ken Bergeron. • GunMetal Angel 08:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Discography[edit]

Just to explain my recent edit - see the relevant Manual of Style section.--Michig (talk) 16:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)