Talk:Abu Simbel temples
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 In Popular Culture
- 2 official portrait sculpture ritually effaced
- 3 Garden of Eden
- 4 The greater temple
- 5 Reorginization and clean up
- 6 The Origin Land of Abu Simbel is Sudan (a North African country)
- 7 Singing statues?
- 8 Greek inscription
- 9 Wrong title
- 10 Dates
- 11 Small Temple
- 12 Name of article
- 13 08:07, 5 February 2017 change
- 14 c class
In Popular Culture
In the Edit of 18:00, 21 April 2008, an anonymous contributor stated that the temple is briefly seen in Star Wars Episode One. I watched that scene from the DVD several times in slow motion, but I couldn't see it. Has anyone else verified this contributor's claim? — Schoch6 (talk) 23:58, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
I suspect this was inserted as a joke, as the planet named isn't a desert planet. I'll put in a citation needed tag, but the problem is that this has now been a part of wikipedia for seven years, and the fact has been repeated all over the internet. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
- I deleted it. Nobody seems to have images online showing the temple in the film, and it's not as if this bit of trivia would have any significance even if it were true. Best to err on the side of caution. A. Parrot (talk) 21:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
The deletion sounds a sensible move. It remains in the talk page in case anyone comes up with a reference. IMDb's filming locations for Star Wars: Episode I list Italy, Tunisia, UK. These are confirmed with more exact location details in movie-locations.com. Although the 'Abu SImbel' idea has been repeated around the Internet on less sturdy sources, the Wiki page, Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace, and also the Wiki page, List of Star Wars filming locations make no mention of anywhere in Egypt, including Abu Simbel. As a trivia item, I would think it needs something a bit stronger if anyone wanted to suggest re-inclusion. Parzivalamfortas 05:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parzivalamfortas (talk • contribs)
- Well, all that the special-effects people would have to do is insert an image of the temple into the crowded CGI cityscape, as some kind of in-joke or something. Special-effects people are known to do that sort of thing. But even if they did that, it's hardly of pressing importance to include here. A. Parrot (talk) 06:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
official portrait sculpture ritually effaced
The second colossus? I'd always heard that it was first-century earthquake damage. Experts? –Hajor 15:45, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I'm no expert, but the recent additions by ARGOU look like a copyvio to me, or at least a verbatim copy without attribution: Google, World66. — mark ✎ 16:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
At least World66 is Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 Licence. Can this be fixed by retroactively attributing them as a source? Assuming they are the original source, that is -- text appears in a bunch of other places as well. ARGOU, you there? –Hajor 16:20, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- It doesn't sound like a reader-contributed travel description to me anyway — my guess would be that it is copied from some offline travel guide (and a pretty old one at that, judging from the archaic phrasing). But how are we ever going to know? — mark ✎ 16:55, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Dear ARGOU, I hate to play wikicop, but please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia:Copyrights. As a general rule, like it says every time you press the save page button, "by submitting your work you promise you wrote it yourself, or copied it from public domain resources -- this does not include most web pages." Which webpage was it? If it was that cc.by.sa one, I suppose we can simply cover the crediting requirement by placing a footer in the article. Or something. –Hajor 20:47, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
OK. In the absence of any statement of relinquishment of rights, release into the public domain, etc. on that web site, and unless you had their express permission to use it, the text you contributed to this article must be considered a violation of that site's copyright. If that's the case, we'd better remove it. –Hajor 18:17, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Hey there,
- What section, specificly, did ARGOU add? I read through the article and am having some trouble pinning it down. Was it the section on tourism? Thanks alot, and I hope if there is anyway to do so I can contribute some more. Something I think that would help this article alot would be to add a list of good books on the subject of the temples at Abu Simbel. I recently wrote a paper on this, where web sources were not allowed, so I could suggest some in the future. -Tristram Shandy
Garden of Eden
I understand that a representation of the Garden of Eden was found in this temple (Godfrey Higgins, Esq., Anacalypsis: An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis; or an Inquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions, 2 vols. (new York: J. W. Bouton, 1878), vol. 1, p.403.). Could this information be added?
- Looks good to me, should it be mentioned in the same section as Ramesses II's claimed victory in the battle of Battle of Khadesh and other pictographic depictions or should it have its own section bringing in suggestion to the depiction of Eden in other temples from near the same era? (specificly, I mean, Mesopatamian temples from the Assyrian and Sumerian ruling periods.) Personally I would like to see it be paralleled with the depictions that other cultures fabricated. -Tristram Shandy
What is the English translation of Abu Simbel I wonder? It is an Arabic term "Father of..........?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 07:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
The greater temple
From what I understand the light does not shine on all statues, but only on three the sun gods Ra-Horakhty, Amun and Ramesses. Ptah (on the far left) remains in shadows all year as he is the god of darkness. When the temple was moved not only did the dates change to the 22nd of October and February but now part of the light shines on Ptah's shoulder. The original dates for this were the 21st.
- In the book sources I came across they said the original date was the 21st and that it turned into the 20th of each month respectively. Where did you read that these occurences were the supposed birthdate and coronation of Ramesses II?
- -Tristram Shandy
The above mentioned move from 21st to 22nd of October and Februar is from astronomic point of view impossible. If you are interested please give me your Mail adress an I will sent you a paper. M Mail Adress is: Manfred.Bauer@hcu-hamburg.de. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, this snippet seems unlikely, and evidence to the contrary would be interesting, but you should just reference the published paper in the article. Other editors are likely to have access to journal archives. If its an unpublished paper, it doesn't qualify as a reliable source. What we have right doesn't appear to be particularly good references to me, but they are references rather than just bald assertions. BTW evidence about this being astronomically impossible without sources talking about Abu Simbel would have a WP:SYN problem. It wouldn't let us alter the dates, but instead both pieces of information would have to coexist on the page. (my opinion - sources for the required declination of the sun before and after the move would probably be better than dates)
- BTW - you shouldn't publish personal info like that on Wikipedia. Bazzargh (talk) 01:52, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
About the occurences on the supposed birthdate and coronation of Ramesses II: I was there a few weeks ago and that was something that the tour guide told us about the temple. I also seem to remember him saying that the dates moved forward one day. But the group I was with had a long conversation about the birthdate and coronation day being something that someone just made up. -Karin Marshall —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 02:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Reorginization and clean up
I recently wrote a paper about the greater temple at Abu Simbel for my History of Architecture class. Using this information I went through and did some clean up where I beleive my writing and research would help. Up soon I will add a bibliography for works cited and consulted, but I need to "convert" it into wikipedia's standard as it is currently in the MLA format. -Tristram Shandy
The Origin Land of Abu Simbel is Sudan (a North African country)
The above unsigned heading (unsigned template added by me), along with a couple of article edits by the same anonymous editor, seem to indicate that Abu Simbel was moved from Sudan into Egypt. Is this a claim that Egypt "stole" Abu Simbel from Sudan? The border between the two countries takes a detour at the Nile (as this map shows). But most online sources seem to agree that Abu Simbel stands about 50 km from the Sudan-Egypt border. Since the complex was only moved about 200ft up the side of the valley, it seems unlikely that it was moved across the border. I suppose the question then is whether the border was moved at some point in the past, transferring land from Sudan to Egypt. If anyone has any information on this, it would be nice to either confirm that Abu Simbel was once located in Sudan, or else to remove that claim from the article. GeoGreg 23:43, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- I've got a Reader's Digest Great World Atlas published in 1962. According to the map in page 72 of the Atlas it is clearly evident that there was no border change. You can find the links to the snapshots of the evidence down below. So, according to the new information, I'll remove the sentence in question.
==Maybe a rethink!== May I suggest you read the history of Nubia! When the high dam was built Nubia was submerged, approx half of the Nubians moved to Sudan and half moved to Egypt, formerly the land was known as Kush! Further the term Abu is an Arabic patronimic meaning "father of" when a mans first boy child is born he is known as Abu whatever he calls his son, it is not possible therfore for a young boy to bear the patronimic Abu anything!Merlin-UK (talk) 23:36, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
- Kizzuwatna 22:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep in mind that clearly defined borders are a modern invention, which required surveying techniques and a standard unit of distance. The French Revolution (1781) and the meter (1791)are good starting points. Before that borders were either natural borders (a river or a mountain range) or just left indistinct, by modern standards at least. There wasn't a line on one side of which one language was spoken, and on the other another. Usually these land borders are in remote areas and were not very important to anybody.
Is anyone aware of the singing statues, presumably because of the wind in the crevices? It is mentioned in the Agatha Christie film "Death on the Nile". What did it supposedly signigy? Does it still do this since the temple was moved (the film/book are set in the 1930s) If anyone can add info, that would be great. Thanks!--Cbradshaw 03:01, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Like I said earlier I was there a few weeks ago and I never heard anything about them singing. They did say that the Colossi of Memnon sang but they were near Edfu. -Karin Marshall 8/17/08 Hi, Karin the Colossus of Memnon are in the Theban Necropolis on the west bank of Luxor and the singing is caused by the warming of the stones at sunrise. Merlin-UK (talk) 23:39, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
The name Abu Simbel is more commonly a synonym for the monuments, both in and outside of Egypt, which provides the justification for the Wiki redirect. In some places it is referred to as a town by the way, but the Egypt Tourist Authority calls it a "very small village" which sounds about right, (http://www.egypt.travel/city/index/abu-simbel) but either way not significant enough for its own page unfortunately. Parzivalamfortas 16:05, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm a new user and I dont know exactly where to ask my question, but I arrived here so I'll write it: in this version of Abu Simbel, the english, the construction dates are from "approximately 1264 B.C. until 1244 B.C."; in the spanish version (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Simbel) the dates are different "approximately 1284 B.C. until 1264 B.C." If anyone knows the correct ones please change them if you can. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Respawiki (talk • contribs) 10:34, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
The caption "The gods Set (left) and Horus (right) adoring Ramesses in the small temple at Abu Simbel" makes me a bit uncomfortable. Are the gods really adoring him? I think "blessing" or perhaps "anointing" would be better, so in the spirit of BRD I've changed it to "bless." If someone can document that Rameses' ego was so big that he expected the gods to adore him rather than the other way around, I'll take my reversion like a primate (no, not by screaming imprecations and hurling poo: I'm a more mature, dignified primate).
Name of article
Could someone explain why this article is called its current title rather than the official title of Nubian Monuments from Abu Simbel to Philae?
- John Cummings: This article is about the two temples at the site of Abu Simbel. "Nubian Monuments from Abu Simbel to Philae" is a UNESCO designation that lumps together several sites, including Philae, Amada, Maharraqa, and Kalabsha. They were all built in different periods of Egyptian history and not very close to one another; Abu Simbel is 140 miles from Philae. A. Parrot (talk) 21:04, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
08:07, 5 February 2017 change
this is the only instance in Egyptian art that the statues of the king and his consort have equal size - wrong, refer to earlier statues of Amenhotep III and Tiye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SubRE (talk • contribs) 08:42, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
https://ores.wmflabs.org/v2/scores/enwiki/wp10/787370480 -- Prose-proem (talk) 15:04, 1 July 2017 (UTC)