Talk:Adam Oates

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Good article Adam Oates has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
August 28, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
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2002-2003 Season[edit]

The stats given in this section are very different from the ones in the table below. Anyone know which are correct? (unfortunately I do not know where to procure hockey stats) 68.161.220.16 09:38, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

You're right, they're off, the ones posted below are the correct ones. I'll clean it up a bit.

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

GA nomination[edit]

This article's nomination for GA, shouldn't be passed. Adam Oates hasn't been inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame, yet. The Hall of Fame, 2012 addition to the bottom of the infobox, gives the impression that he has been. GoodDay (talk) 20:34, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Only a moron would think that, given the article says both in the lead and his playing section that he has been elected and will be inducted in November. I realize you are upset that consensus is against you, but that does not justify your WP:POINT actions and, frankly, trolling. Resolute 20:41, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
It's best to wait until November (after the induction ceremony), before nominationg this article for GA, IMHO. But since it has been nominated now, the reviewers will decide on its status. GoodDay (talk) 20:52, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Mm, I'm with Resolute. The notion that a GA nomination shouldn't pass because you don't like the consensus on a particular element of the article is nothing short of sour grapes. You've been around quite long enough to understand how GA works (or you ought to, in any event) and the provisions of WP:POINT. The only grounds for objection in this particular case would be on WP:CRYSTAL, but since only one electee in the Hockey Hall of Fame's 67 year history has failed to be inducted, the notion that Oates' election is solely speculative is farcical. Ravenswing 07:24, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Inaccurate information in the infobox, makes not a GA, IMHO. Anyways, it's up to the reviewers, now. GoodDay (talk) 13:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, see now, let's examine that. Upon what basis do you assert that Oates is not a member of the Hall of Fame? That the public ceremony has not yet been held? That there isn't a hunk of metal on the wall yet? The point that the webmaster updates the website? Do you in fact know when this is official, and can you quote the HHOF rule governing this? (In fact, according to By-Law 21, paragragh 32, it is when the Chairman of the Board of Directors certifies the member, and not upon the induction ceremony.) Ravenswing 18:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Oates hasn't been inducted, yet. Therefore, I haven't changed my stance. GoodDay (talk) 01:02, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
So stipulated. I'm quite happy to let reviewers decide whether or not your personal preference about what ought to constitute an Honoured Member overrules the Hockey Hall of Fame's bylaw on the subject, and the degree to which WP:IDHT comes into play. Ravenswing 01:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Should the reviewers decide to give this article a GA status, then the article will get its GA status. GoodDay (talk) 02:11, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
What a ridiculous case of a WP:POINT argument. Just because consensus hasn't gone your way doesn't mean you need to continue spouting off about it all over the place and in this case trying to block a GA. The infobox does not say inducted, it does not indicate in any way that he has been inducted. It just says he is a member of the 2012 class, which is what he is. That is already a fact. It has already happened. -DJSasso (talk) 12:27, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Adam Oates/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sarastro1 (talk · contribs) 10:13, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Looks good generally, just a few little prose issues and a few jargon issues for non-hockey people (although I'm slowly getting there myself!). Some of this is a little clunky, and I've highlighted some instances of repetitive sentence openings below. Otherwise, no real problems.

  • "Oates played 19 seasons in the NHL for the Detroit Red Wings, St. Louis Blues, Boston Bruins, Washington Capitals, Philadelphia Flyers, Mighty Ducks of Anaheim and Edmonton Oilers.": Quite a long list for the lead. Maybe cut back to "several teams" and just emphasise the most notable ones?
    It is a long list, but it is also our standard lead for players. I would prefer to leave as is. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • "Known as an elite playmaker, his career total of 1,079 assists was the fifth highest total in NHL history at the time of his 2004 retirement. Oates turned to coaching following his retirement as a player…": Retirement…retirement
  • "He holds single-season school records…": When? (WP:DATED)
  • Several sentences beginning "He/Oates" in the lead; a little variety may help a little.
  • "In addition to hockey, he played box lacrosse as a youth and considered it his favoured sport.": A little clunky; maybe "He played hockey, but box lacrosse was his favourite sport as youth."
  • "Oates' total of 181 points in 19 games in 1981 is one of the highest totals in OLA junior history": Can we be more precise here?
  • "Senior A": Maybe link this, although it is fairly obvious what it means?
    Hmm. There seems to be no appropriate article to link to. I created a redlink to senior lacrosse in the hopes that someone (if I don't do it myself) creates something akin to senior ice hockey. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • "He described himself as a "punk" in his youth.": As written, this suggests that when he was a youth, he called himself a "punk". Is this the intention?
    Not quite. Changed. Hopefully better?
  • "The Waxers retired his jersey number 10 in 1999." Presumably, this was after he had been successful, but it seems a little out of place in this section.
  • College: I'm a little confused on the chronology at the start of this section and the end of the last. I read this as: he returned to school, was recruited by RPI, played for the Markham Waxers, then signed for RPI. So, it's a little confusing.
  • "He also holds the RPI career record of 150 assists.": Again, date needed here.
  • "85–19–1 record": Can we link this?
    There isn't really an article I can link to that wont be an easter egg. I created a mouse over note explaining the record. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • College section: Slight over-use of "named" in this section.
  • "Several NHL teams expressed interest in Oates following his junior season as at least five teams attempted to sign him.": I think we either just need "several" or "at least five teams", but not both.
  • "scored his first goal that night on goaltender Don Beaupre while adding an assist.": Not sure about "while" here: did he score the goal at the same time as providing an assist, or in the same game.
  • More repetitive sentences, beginning "Oates/He".
  • "their first-line centre": Not too sure what "first-line" means.
  • "In 1989–90, Oates topped the 100-point mark for the first time in his career with 102 points. He improved to 115 in 1990–91 NHL season,[6] setting up Hull's 72 and 86-goal seasons": I'm afraid this loses me slightly.
  • "prompting a sharply negative reaction from St. Louis fans"
  • "as the Flyers were upset in the first round": Not really encyclopaedic.
  • "one goal in regulation time and were shut out three times": Some links needed here, I think.
  • "He is also the only player in NHL history to centre three 50-goal scorers": Sorry, lost me here!
    I've added the link to line (ice hockey) in an earlier part of the article. combined with the lead link to centre (ice hockey), I hope it combines to explain that a line consists of three players, of which one position is centre. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • "In November, Oates will be...": Year?
    "...as part of its 2012 class" It's a temporal statement designed to placate a stubborn editor who really opposes any real mention of his hall of fame election until the induction itself. I will be removing the temporal part this November when the induction ceremony takes place. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • "the team's power play finished ninth in the league...": Lost again, sorry!
  • "he was credited with playing a significant role...": Credited by?
    The cited article does not specify. The best answer I can give you is "observers of hockey", which doesn't add much. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • I assume there are no images that could be used?
    Unfortunately, it is hard to get free images of players whose careers were primarily in the 80s and 90s. Now that he is a head coach, I might be able to get a picture of him when next his team visits Calgary, but that will be some months from now. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Spot-checks fine except:
    • "In 1983–84, he set school records in points with 83 and assists with 57. He was named to the East Coast Athletic Conference (ECAC) second all-star team and became the first RPI hockey player to earn a berth on the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) All-American team since 1965": Not all supported by ref 9.
      It is ref 8 now after some movement, and it does, though the source's use of shorthand to denote ECAC all-star ("All-East") and NCAA All-Star ("All-American") appearances is likely creating your confusion. I pulled another source in that explicitly states those berths. Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll place on hold for now, but as I say, no real problems. Sarastro1 (talk) 12:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks for the review! I will look to address these tonight! Regards, Resolute 14:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I've made comments above where necessary, but have addressed (hopefully) all of your points. Thanks again! Resolute 23:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, I've made a few copy-edits to fix a few repetitive sentences, but please revert anything I messed up. Passing now. Sarastro1 (talk) 07:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)