Talk:Afanasievo culture

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Untitled Comment[edit]

In the overwhelmigly Mongoloid surroundings, the Afanasyevo tribes belonged to the so-called paleo-European stock (Great Soviet Encyclopedia' sentry on Afanasyevo Culture). Perhaps this information is worthy of inclusion in our article? --Ghirlandajo 20:43, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

from the sources I came up with from a websearch, I'd say the actual extension of the culture looks about thusly. The exact delineation is probably not even known, I suspect. They can easily be the Proto-Tocharians, situation and timeframe fit perfectly (loss of contact with Yamna from about 3500). dab () 14:45, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Name[edit]

  • Should this article be at Afanasievo, or Afanasyevo instead? Both have more google hits than Afanasevo (3,900; 1,840; vs 1,370) and google book hits (22, 7, 5). The Cambridge History of China and Charles Higham's Early Cultures of Mainland Southeast Asia both use Afanasievo; we should probably use the official Russian spelling of the name, if anyone knows what that may be--Confuzion 18:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Agreed, the Wikipedia entry is misspelled. The English-language references and scholarship (e.g. the cited resources for the entry like Mallory, Mair and Anthony) all use Afanasievo. In fact the content under the misspelled "Afanasevo culture" entry uses the Afanasievo spelling. Jacobfisher.treo (talk) 14:59, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Reference[edit]

The cited work 'The Tarim Mummies' by Mallory and Mair is probably the most up to date reference in English for this pre-historic culture, and in the light of this the reference in the Great Soviet Encyclopaedia above can be considered very outdated. The authors make clear that the presence of Indo-European pastoralists (Tocharians) in Central East Asia, specifically in the Tarim Basin and Turfan, preceded by many centuries that of the Chinese and the Turkic tribes, although the Tocharians were ultimately affected quite radically by the Hsiung-Nu, and the expansion of various Turkic tribal groupings in the early centuries CE.

In reading Mallory's and Mair's book I felt that I would personally have benefited from a basic knowledge and understanding of the historic climatology of the regions in question which were, regrettably, scarcely touched upon, apart from the references to 'oasis agriculture'. Geoff Powers (talk) 16:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Recent POV-pushing (inserting non-RS) and edit warring[edit]

Diffs: [1], [2], [3]. This user tries to insert his POV and false/wrong content using an unreliable source. --Zyma (talk) 19:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Etnocentrism[edit]

This article is clearly etnocentrist and one sided. I just added a published sources and at the moment removed. User Zyma is keep vandilism on Andronovo and Afanasevo articles. This artcile need to be a third side users and objective admins. Thanks Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 19:35, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Your "source"[4], which includes no mention of volume number or page number, is a picture of books, with an introduction written by Hasan Celal Güzel, a Turkish journalist and politician, who has no academic standing in the field of archaeological culture. I see nothing from your "source" that can be used as a reliable source. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:48, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Hasan Celal Güzel just an editor of encyclopedia.(one of editors) Not a writer of sentence. You should be know; a couple histerical user obsessively unrevert my edits. If I add page number, will you support this source in Andronova and this article? Yagmurlukorfez (talk) 21:01, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Why aren't you using secondary sources for this? If this is so academically well-known and acknowledged, then I am sure there would be secondary sources written by specialized academics and not some obscure "encyclopedia" edited by a journalist/politician.
"The arrival of representatives of the Afanas'evo culture in Siberia, Tuva and Mongolia is viewed as the first wave of the migration of the Indo-European-Tocharians eastward...." -- The Origin of the Indo-Iranians, Elena Efimovna Kuzʹmina, page 252.
"Some archaeologist have interpreted the Early Bronze Age Afanasevo culture as Indo-Iranian and Europoid...", -- Ambiguous Images: Gender and Rock Art, Kelley Hays-Gilpin, page 192.
I found 2 sources stating Indo/European/Iranian for the Afanasevo culture, both written by specialized academics. What I did not find was "proto-Turks" or "Turkic" for the Afanasevo culture. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:30, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear: I have removed Yagmurlukorfez recent addition, which seems like a continuation of the previous fringe promotion displayed above. The claim of the Afanasevo being of "mixed Europoid and Mongoloid stock througout its South Siberian range" contradicts not only the vast majority of quality sources, but even the scholar Yagmurlukorfez claims to be citing, Valery Alexeyev. Krakkos (talk) 21:36, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Tarim mummies[edit]

The sentence

"Yet, Tarim mummies are genetically closer to Andronovo culture than to Yamnaya culture or Afanasevo culture."

a minor tweak of the original added by User:Ilber8000, is sourced to two articles, Haak et al (2015) and Allentoft et al (2015). However, Haak (which is focussed on European origins) does not mention Afanasevo, Andronovo or the Tarim. Allentoft says Androvno is clearly distinct from Afanasevo and Yamnaya, which are genetically indistinguishable (p169), and mentions Mallory&Mair's suggestion that Afanasevo could be the origin of the Tocharians in the Tarim (p171), but has no mention of Tarim mummies. Kanguole 13:00, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks; I've reverted myself. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:25, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Wording[edit]

"Afanasevo were genetically indistinguishable from Yamnaya people"
Shouldn't it be grammatically improved? Maybe, the Afanasevans? Or the Afanasevo? Or the Yamna people?--Adûnâi (talk) 16:26, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

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