Talk:Ahmad Shukeiri

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Historical anachronisms[edit]

Ahmed Shukairy, born in 1908, could not have had a "Palestinian" father. Palestine did not yet exist during the many centuries of Ottoman rule. In 1908,what we know of today as Jordan and Israel, including Judea-Samaria and The Gaza Strip, then, was made up of five provinces under the Ottoman Rulers: Sanjak Acre, Sanjak Nablus,[these were part of the Vilayet Beirut]the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem [where Tel Aviv was founded in 1909] and on the other side of the Jordan River, the Sanjak of Maan and Sanjak Hauran [Druze], both part of the Vilayet Damascus.These last two became Transjordan, until Abdullah in 1948, attacked the newly established State of Israel and captured Judea-Samaria. Now because he was on both sides of the Jordan River, he renamed his kingdom Jordan. In 1950, he granted Jordanian citizenship to all the Arabs in his newly acquired territories, now called the Western Bank of his Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. In 1951, an Arab killed him!

The 1915 Sykes-Picot Agreement, does not mention a "palestine". The 1917 Balfour Declaration was to establish a Jewish Homeland called Palestine. The 1919 agreement between Emir Feisal and Dr. Weizmann looked forward to a cordial relationship between Emir Feisal's Arab State [his father was King of Hejaz and Nejd] and the Jewish State to be. [Feisal went on to become the King of the three Vilayets the British gave him: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, which he renamed, IRAQ.] When T.E. Lawrence had his meoirs published of his adventures as "Lawrence of Arabia" called "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" it contained four maps of the area he had been in. None of the maps has the word "palestine" on them, yet he, Gen. Allenby and Storrs managed to get around. -- unsigned comment by IP 11:07, 17 August 2005

Nothing on Perceptions[edit]

Why is there nothing on the fact that he is widely perceived to be an ineffectual loudmouth who accomplished very little -- not to mention his most famous utterance, just before the 6-day war, about "Throwing the Jews into the sea"? AnonMoos 16:13, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

There are two good reasons here (a) he didn't say it, though he did say other much more objectionable things (see Shemesh, Moshe (2003). Did Shuqayri Call for "Throwing the Jews into the Sea"? Israel Studies. 8(2), 70-81 and (b) the Arab states were more interested in covering their own failings in the Six-Day War by using him as a fall guy. --Ian Pitchford 19:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

POV: Pro-Arab propaganda[edit]

This article is nothing but propaganda. As the above comment relates, Shukairy was a highly inflammatory racist. The article mentions none of it, such his infamous prediction that none of the Jews would survive the coming battle. (talk) 10:31, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

UN roles in error[edit]

The article says he was Syrian rep in the UN for 1949 to 1951 and a Saudi Arabian rep in the UN for 1957 to 1962. However, he was a Syrian rep in Jan 1952 [1] and also in May 1956 (Official records, 724th Meeting, page 10). This indicates that the description here is quite inaccurate and we need a better source. This page seems to have it right: he was Syrian rep for 1950-1956 and Saudi rep for 1957-1963. But is that source one we can use under WP:RS? Zerotalk 16:54, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

unexplained reverts[edit]

Shukerii was born in Lebanon, to a Turkish mother. It seems both the category of "Turkish descent" and "immigrant to Palestine" are appropriate could the editor who keeps removing this explain why? Epson Salts (talk) 13:27, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Neither Lebanon nor Palestine were separate countries at the time of his birth. He was born an Ottoman citizen and became a Palestinian citizen during the Mandate period. It is much more sensible to class him as Palestinian than as Lebanese. Zerotalk 13:44, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
he was not born in Palestine - he moved there, with a different citizenship. why is he not an immigrant? Epson Salts (talk) 13:59, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
He was born in a place that was within the range of definitions of "Palestine" before the Anglo-French agreements on the border more than a decade later. For example, it is well inside the definition of "Palestine" that the Zionists tried to get the major powers to accept at the Paris peace conference. He lived in what became mandatory Palestine from before it became mandatory Palestine. Nor did he change citizenship: Ottoman subjects living in Palestine became Palestinian citizens automatically. Since his moving around did not involve crossing any borders, calling him an immigrant is dubious. Zerotalk 23:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
The question is what was the status of the territories when he moved there, not what they were when he was born (that's totally irrelevant factor - do you think the thousands of Iraqi jews, born in Iraq pre-1920, who subsequently become Israeli citizens are also not emigrants?) If he indeed "lived in what became mandatory Palestine from before it became mandatory Palestine." there might be merit to your claim, but I see no evidence of that in the article. Epson Salts (talk) 00:13, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
The Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East, 2004 edition, says "Ahmad Shuqayri was a Palestinian born in Tibnin, Lebanon, while his father, the Islamic judge Shaykh Asʿad Shuqayri, was living there in exile. Ahmad returned to the family's home town of Acre in 1916. After studies there and in Jerusalem, he entered the American University of Beirut in 1926 but was expelled by French Mandate authorities the following year for Arab nationalist activities. Following his return to Palestine,..." So he was living in Palestine from 1916 to 1926, during which time the Ottoman Empire ended and the British Mandate started. Even his father was only away from Acre because he was exiled. Definitely not an immigrant. Zerotalk 01:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
seems pretty self-contradictory to maintain that his father was "in exile" from Palestine in Lebanon, but that the son moving from Lebanon to Palestine is not an immigarnt since both were the same country. But this is not that important a point If he was indeed in Acre IN 1916, he is probably not an immigrant. Epson Salts (talk) 01:20, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
I think it just means exiled from his home town. People who made trouble in one place could be forced to live somewhere else. Zerotalk 01:59, 5 September 2016 (UTC)