|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Air conditioning article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
|Air conditioning has been listed as a level-4 vital article in Technology. If you can improve it, please do. This article has been rated as C-Class.|
|WikiProject Engineering||(Rated C-class, Mid-importance)|
|This article was nominated for merging with HVAC on 19 February 2013. The result of the discussion (permanent link) was no consensus.|
- 1 "AC" or "A/C" ?
- 2 Professional bodies
- 3 history section deficient
- 4 History: Social and health impacts of air conditioning.
- 5 Merge from air conditioner
- 6 Health Issues Junk Science
- 7 Do we need two articles?
- 8 Absorption cycle
- 9 Critics
- 10 General cleanup
- 11 Added GIF
- 12 Should we add a section on sexism?
- 13 Comments requested on merging "air cooling" process descriptions from multiple Wikipedia articles
"AC" or "A/C" ?
- I do not think there is a standard either way. I have never seen "alternating current" abbreviated "A/C," but I have seen "air conditioning" abbreviated both ways. VQuakr (talk) 18:04, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
- actually, 'in the industry" we will usually not need to make a distinction as we're smart enought to know by context. Verbally, NO ONE says "A slash C" and hardly anyone says AC after 440 or 220 or 110 (as in volts) anyway. Written it is usually just AC (for both/either) as it is faster. However, HVAC is the 'proper' term for air conditioning. (Heating, Ventilation, And Cooling; or Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning altho the last is somewhat redundant). Ken (talk) 17:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Why do we have a section on professional bodies (not sourced at that)? This seems entirely unnecessary, the whole article reads anyway as a promotion piece for air conditioning and this just makes it worse. The selecting of only certain countries is also not comprehensible so I have removed the whole section. ReyRichard (talk) 17:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
- I don't know if it really could be considered blatant promotion, but meh no big deal on removing it either. The one I am more familiar with, ASHRAE, is pretty influential on efficiency standards, etc (the mechanical and energy codes, for example, often cite ASHRAE publications for design standards). As such, I would not be opposed to re-adding a less puffy bit on such organizations' impact on AC. VQuakr (talk) 18:04, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
history section deficient
see Arab architecture and passive cooling, induced airflow, convection, Bernoulli, Venturi, Coandă effect
G. Robert Shiplett 12:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
History: Social and health impacts of air conditioning.
This article includes superb technical info but begs for the addition of information on the social and health impacts of AC during its early adoption in mid 20th century. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dosware (talk • contribs) 05:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Merge from air conditioner
I've re-merged this page with content taken from air conditioner. This was split in 2006 following the logic behind splitting refrigerator and refrigeration: however, that's led to the pages containing largely-overlapping content which is less well maintained for being split over two pages. In the process I removed a lot of material which was unsourced or plainly copyvio from the merged content.
Lots of work will be required to bring this article up to scratch, but with the newly-imported material this should be easier to do in the long run. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
Health Issues Junk Science
In the section "Health Issues" para 3, we have the unsupportable statement "Spending most of the time in AC environment could lead to lower immunity because, lack of free supply of oxygen hinders with normal functioning of white blood cells that fight bacteria." I'm deleting the para because the "supporting" reference is a newspaper article which supplies no evidence--and even fewer citations--that refrigerated (or any other type of) airconditioning removes oxygen from the air. If anybody can find valid science to support the claims in the para, then youse can put it back. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 06:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I haven't had the chance to read that article but if anyone is considering reinserting those claims, please make sure the source satisfies WP:MEDRS, if not, do not include it. YuMaNuMa Contrib 07:04, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
More Junk Science
In addition to the reappearance of the issues noted above by YuMa, paragraph 5 of "Health Issues" has been deleted.
The paragraph stated "AC achieves cooling through the process of evaporation. Due to this, mucous membranes in the nose and mouth get dry...". User:AgniKalpa, the author of the offending edit, seems to believe that air conditioners cause evaporation of water vapor, thus drying the air in the room. This is incorrect.
For clarity, most air conditioners remove heat from a room by passing air over a coil in which the coolant, having passed from a higher pressure region to a lower pressure region, evaporates, dispersing the energy in the mass of the coolant over a larger volume, creating a volume of lower thermal energy relative to the air outside the coil. The second law of thermodynamics dictates that some of the heat in the air will be conducted through the metal of the coil into the coolant. The coolant is then forced into an area of higher pressure where the process is reversed, with the heat leaving the coolant outside the area to be cooled. The evaporation that results in cooling happens entirely within a sealed system, and can not remove moisture from the air as water vapor can not pass through the walls of the coil.
If User:AgniKalpa's belief were valid, the evaporation would add moisture to the air, not remove it.
The drying effect, as already explained earlier in the article, is caused by condensation of water vapor already in the air. The amount of condensation #and therefore, dehumidification# can be, and in many cases is, regulated by controlling the temperature of the coils. Specifically, keeping the coils above the dew point will prevent condensation, and may actually raise the relative humidity of the room by lowering the temperature while maintaining the absolute humidity.
Some air conditioners, as described in the section on "evaporative coolers", actually do use evaporation of water vapor. These systems do add water vapor to the air, raising the absolute humidity.
- Sorry, Bruce, you must have misunderstood his/point. It is not incorrect. It was not about the evaporative proccess within the unit, but the condensing process which happens to the air flowing over the evaporator coils' exterior. In fact, in moist areas such as the USA Gulf Coast, this dehumidification is more of a comfort factor than temperature reduction. The amount of water condensed from the evaporator coils from the interior space is significant and is disposed thru piping to the exterior. It can amount to gallons per day in large homes and is often recycled into lawn watering or other secondary uses. In extreme cases it CAN lead to drying of mucuous membranes. It is most definitley NOT junk Science. Ken (talk) 15:34, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Do we need two articles?
- In the heat pump section, the extremely brief description of the workings of an absorption heat pump is also extremely wrong. I think the mention of absorption heat pumps should stay, but the description should be removed. At least I try (talk) 13:11, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
I also have a feeling this page is a bit promotional and messy. I created a 'critics' section that hopefully will welcome some information about nowadays issues on the topic.
I'm removing this: "Air conditioning may have a positive effect on sufferers of allergies and asthma." since the opposite is also true for the many houses/companies that have a poor maintenance of their systems. Maybe someone can find references for the two sides.
Adding sections inside critics about: -environnement, needs info about ozone depletants still used in some countries -global warming,
I'm currently going through the entire article, trying to put everthing into a consistent format. Mostly I didn't remove information, I just re-ordered it and re-organised the sections (e.g. there were 3 different sections on the topic of refrigerants, containing very similar information). My plan is to be done within the next few days. Hopefully that will resolve some of the issues the article is having at the moment. Noggo (talk) 17:02, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- It's a good start. The group of articles related to HVAC has a lot of overlapping and redundant coverage, and also topics that need better coverage. I am developing an info-bar template for HVAC related articles that will at least make it clearer which articles exist. I hope this will make it easier to understand the current setup, and how to improve it. If anybody knows of existing info-bars or lists relating to HVAC, I would appreciate hearing about them, so I don't re-invent the wheel. Reify-tech (talk) 19:07, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you, VQuaker, for the suggestion; I had just come across Glossary of HVAC terms on my own, and have incorporated some of it into the HVAC info-bar template I am developing. I suggest moving this discussion to Talk:HVAC, as that seems like the logical overview article for this entire group of topics. Reify-tech (talk) 18:06, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
---I remved the section on St George's hall being the first air conditioned building. The plaque is technically correct, the air was conditioned...it was heated. It is not exactly what the scope of this article falls to. http://www.bbc.co.uk/liverpool/culture/2002/08/st_georges/air_con.shtml The first modern air conditioned builings were those designed by Carrier, though, I'll have to find a reasonable source to use for those. Cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 14:20, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Should we add a section on sexism?
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
According to a number of wikipedia approved authorised sources such as the Telegraph and Jezebel air conditioning is sexist. I feel it only right to help improve the diversity in inclusivity of wikipeida that a section be added to cover this important information. Udoks (talk) 03:22, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
This section seems off-topic from the overall article. It may be more suited to an article on occupational sexism, not airconditioning (i.e. Occupational sexism). 188.8.131.52 (talk) 08:09, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
This is completely off topic and sensationalistic as written. The linked general interest articles are about office temperature setpoints; whether the air is conditioned or naturally ventilated is not particularly relevant. Somehow that is being extrapolated into "air conditioning is inherently sexist." Devoting an entire freaking section to this stupid clickbait is moronic; a sentence somewhere summarizing the ASHRAE and Nature standards for the disparate comfort ranges for men and women would be appropriate as that appears to have been missing. VQuakr (talk) 01:44, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
You do realise you're all being trolled right?
According to wikipedia's own allowance and their use in other sources they are more than reputable and in now way Click-Baitey titles. [emph mine.] They are legitimate Wikipedia sources and such sites have been cited in a number of other articles including one recently cleared by Arbcom. The constant focus on "wikipedia approved sources" the obvious sarcasm in the above statement, there is no way this person is not trolling. As such I've hatted everything.Brustopher (talk) 00:52, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Comments requested on merging "air cooling" process descriptions from multiple Wikipedia articles
Right there are multiple articles which talk about the process of air cooling. This looks to me like forks of the same content, and I propose to merge it to one place. Can anyone else comment on whether this is the same concept, and if so, suggest the one place where this information should be?
Proposal: Cut all sections of any article talking about the science of air cooling, paste that content to "Heat pump and refrigeration cycle", and point other articles there.
- Support as proposer Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:17, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Messages posted to WikiProjects Physics, Energy, Engineering, and Technology, and also the talk pages of Heat pump and refrigeration cycle, Heat pump, and Refrigeration. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- All of these are applications of a heat cycle as applied to air and some other heat transfer fluid (in a heat pump, other air; in a refrigerator and AC, a coolant dumping to outside). I'm not entirely sure that means they should be in the same location, since there are going to be some particulars based on the application. --Izno (talk) 17:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)