Talk:Alan Dershowitz

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Former good article nomineeAlan Dershowitz was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
February 1, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed

More recent sources for "liberal" in the lede?[edit]

There are three sources in the lede for the term "liberal", all older than ten years. We need a more recent source, especially given that he has spent a year or so defending Trump on a daily basis. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 19:23, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

He still considers himself a Liberal. But feel free to find those sources to add. We wouldn't want anyone using WP:OR and WP:SYNTH to try claiming in this article that he's now a Conservative. -- ψλ 23:20, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Does he defend Trump or does he merely defend the legality of what Trump is doing? Sir Joseph (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
I've seen him do both. As well as defend Trump supporters. But it really doesn't matter. Doing so doesn't mean he's "defected" from being a Liberal, it just means he's a critical thinker who thinks logically, legally, and independently. In other words: he's not a lemming and is not afraid to be honest and open about it. -- ψλ 02:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Two of the sources actually do not say anything about his liberalism, and the third source is a dead link. I suspect whoever added them in the past suspected no one would follow up—there's literally nothing to lend credibility to the description of him as a "self-described liberal". I suggest all three be removed and a "citation needed" tag be applied, if not an outright edit removing the claim. GavinMcGimpsey (talk) 13:53, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Also, the lede is supposed to summarize the body of the article, which does not use the word "liberal" in reference to Dershowitz at all. Looking for it, all I find is "Dershowitz has received some criticism from liberals and praise from conservatives for his defenses of President Donald Trump". The statement does not belong in the lede, and I see Snooganssnoogans has removed it. Bishonen | talk 14:12, 23 May 2019 (UTC).
This needs to be put back. There was no consensus to remove self-described liberal. Here is a source I found in 1 minute of searching (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:18, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Snooganssnoogans please revert your edit, here is the quote from the article "The Harvard law professor and attorney who defended O.J. Simpson says that he is a lifelong liberal but a hard-liner on civil liberties and that he's not about to flip his views just because of attempts to ostracize him." (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:20, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Statutory rape allegations[edit]

The Miami Herald has reported on accusations that Dershowitz had sex with a minor[1]. Should it be covered in the Wikipedia article? Snooganssnoogans (talk) 08:25, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

It has also reported that this affidavit was stricken by the case by a federal judge - so this is a tad less substantiated than "he said / she said" - in this case "she said + didn't quite manage to make the case in court". So, seems rather UNDUE. Icewhiz (talk) 12:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Salon has already retracted significant portions of its article on this matter and corrected several inaccuracies it reported. Per WP:BLP, we have to rely on the absolute highest quality sources; also, this is already covered in the article. There are several NYT pieces cited that cover it effectively. And frankly, we should really refer to this as a legal dispute. Charges were never filed, and it appears that any mention of the allegations were already either sealed/ordered stricken by a judge, according to NYT. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 21:56, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Here's a recent article in the Daily Beast that mentions Alan Dershowitz several times in connection with the "sex-with-minors" trafficking ring run by Jeffrey Epstein: Jeffrey Epstein Arrested for Sex Trafficking of Minors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:16, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

It is inaccurate to say she "didn't quite manage to make the case in court." It was struck from the record procedural reasons, because it was off-topic. (Incidentally, Dershowitz ended up paying a settlement to the woman's lawyers, who sued him for defamation over his statements about their motives for representing the woman).
The young woman is currently suing Dershowitz for defamation. She claims that he did commit statutory rape against her, and that (therefore) he is lying when he says she made the whole thing up. We need a more neutral and thorough presentation of this issue in the article. GergisBaki (talk) 12:22, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Since the statement Dershowitz made about receiving a massage from a minor in his underwear was made by Dershowitz himself, perhaps for now it is fair to at least put this in the personal life or controversies section of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:36, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

The New Yorker also has a very recent article describing in detail the accusations of statutory rape:

"She asserted that she’d had sex with Dershowitz at least six times, in Epstein’s various residences, on his island, in a car, and on his plane. When I asked why she had decided to name Dershowitz, she said, “Jeffrey got away with it, basically. And Dershowitz was one of the people who enabled that to happen.” She went on, “Dershowitz thinks he’s a tyrant and can get away with anything. And I wanted to say, I might be as meek as a mouse, but I’m going to hold you accountable.”

Alan Dershowitz Devils Advocate (talk) 21:46, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Edit request: Dershowitz-Rothschild-Epstein[edit]


Quote: Dershowitz' "social profile began to improve in 1996 upon meeting the financier Jeffrey Epstein through Lynn Forester de Rothschild, a Martha’s Vineyard friend. She told him Epstein was a brilliant autodidact who loved meeting interesting people." -- (talk) 15:35, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Have a look at Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living people. At a glance I think the edit might be warranted, but it needs discussion first. The article is not hiding his connection to Epstein anyway. —Nizolan (talk · c.) 19:27, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

First Wife Section in Family Life[edit]

Seems (to me) worth mentioning in this article that his first wife committed suicide, jumping off of the Brooklyn Bridge, after Dershowitz was awarded full custody of their children in a bitter divorce battle. For reference, the "Alan Dershowitz, Devil's Advocate" New Yorker article details this.

Agreed! The current version seems so vague as to be misleading.

I have added an additional sentence on this using the New Yorker reference. Her suicide was several years after the divorce, so I did not include that, as there is not a clear connection to Dershowitz / this article.Dialectric (talk) 16:45, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Better, but it seems to me that the suicide of one's ex-wife would be a relevant biographical detail for most people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:22, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

"civil libertarian"[edit]

Alan Dershowitz is a defender of Israel's blockade of Gaza (in which the Gazans are denied any freedom of movement to leave Gaza, subject to checkpoints, etc )so it's hard to construe him as a civil libertarian. Moreover, plenty of critics dispute this flattering self-characterization. I understand this is a BLP. But I think instead of calling him a civil libertarian we should say he describes himself as a civil libertarian. THe current version now is not only non-NPOV but doesn't make much sense unless one does not consider Gazans worthy of civil liberties. GergisBaki (talk) 12:10, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Please read WP:OR. Icewhiz (talk) 12:17, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
Well various reliable sources have recognized that Dershowitz is not in fact a civil libertarian. Since the label is contested it's non-neutral to simply present it without qualification. "describes himself as a civil libertarian" or "identifies as a civil libertarian" would be neutral POV. GergisBaki (talk) 14:29, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Notable Cases: Jeffrey Epstein (2008)[edit]

Please change "Epstein eventually pleaded guilty in 2008 to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution and began serving an 18-month sentence."

to "Epstein eventually pleaded guilty in 2008 to a state charge of procuring for prostitution a girl below age 18 and began an 18-month sentence of which he served only 13 months."

Reason: Soliciting prostitution is quite a different thing from procuring underage girls for prostitution. Just ask Dershowitz ;)

Sources: [2] [3] [4] (talk) 06:22, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

 DoneJonesey95 (talk) 21:08, 2 September 2019 (UTC)