Talk:Albania

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2017[edit]

The article states that Albania is the "22th largest producer" of sour cherries, when it should be "22nd largest" Carpsio (talk) 15:21, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

DoneIVORK Discuss 15:42, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Population section needs to be updated.[edit]

I think the Population section needs to be updated and to there are to many informations, to show the population of Albania.

Request to Edit for Minor Grammatical Edits on May 24 2017[edit]

I have an account for Wikipedia and have held it for more than 30 days, but not 500. For this, however, I have found minor grammatical errors that I wish to help correct. I would like access to edit this article for this purpose and it only. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dekkyun (talkcontribs) 21:16, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

The picture containing a Albanian Tulip is an Iris[edit]

The plant is misidentified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoseCottage (talkcontribs) 18:12, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Editor reverted because they are "disruptive"[edit]

Iaof2017, a newbie is being reverted because they are a "disruptive editor" (this comes after the person who calls Iaof2017 so wanted to find them a sock but failed to do it). This is Wikipedia:Harassment. The editors who want to add the pic should find an agreement here. I am initiating the discussion hoping the editors who want to add the pic will use it as a way to avoid further disruption. Ktrimi991 (talk) 12:10, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Your defence of Iaof2017 as a newbie is touching. It really is. Except, it is disingenuous. First, Iaof2017 is a disruptive account who edit-wars longterm removing maps, pictures, etc. from this article that he does not like. Just a few examples of his/her longterm edit-warring and image-removal disruption: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. He also keeps misplacing images and keeps sandwiching them despite warnings. What's worse he has obvious competence issues and has been warned multiple times for serial copyright violations. in addition to that, he has obvious memory problems and does not remember when he agrees multiple times not to violate copyright and yet he pretends that he never heard such warnings before. For more details see his talkpage where I left him a suitable warning. Now, despite your lengthy block log, you take up his defence and start edit-warring removing a perfectly good image which depicts the cultural diversity and tolerance of Albania, without good reason, than to defend an account who is either trolling or just simply incompetent. But it does not end there. You also gave a vandalism warning to an established editor Alexikoua for reverting the clueless removal of the picture by Iaof2017. Your last block was in April of this year. if I were you, I would slow down and not pick unjustifiable edit-warring fights for no good reason. But that's just my advice. Take it or leave it. Dr. K. 12:44, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Dr.K, one can make much of other editors regarding a "take up his defence". On defending other editors the same pronouncement Dr K. made by yourself of others can be made of you. An example is the defence of a POV map purporting to show 'traditional communities' claiming that an editor had explained themselves (i am still waiting for that editor to do so in here of the questions i put to him/her some time back) with the comment to Ktrimi991 that "Go to the talkpage to explain them as Alexikoua did"[[1] while much showing the contrary. Now whatever your issue with that editor or with Iaof2017 this article has flaws due to few editors editing the Albania wikiproject as some editors have made sport in getting them block or banned without trying to dialogue with them. Also new images have been placed on Wikicommons relating to Albania. As Albania has some very restrictive panorama laws the Albanian wikipedia project has to deal with more deletions on the commons than other projects as not all are familiar with those laws when placing images. It means some images taken on a camera in ignorance are removed not long after. In addition some pictures that that been placed in Wikicommons have not been sourced well causing other issues of copyright. Though disappointing this is the situation for the Albanian Wikipedia project. This article is not the preserve of a few experienced editors, or those who may think of themselves that way but for whoever can make a substantive contribution or relevance. Others may have issues of "competence" in how they go about things. The more they edit the more they learn, unless they really screw up and sock.Resnjari (talk) 13:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Let's keep this discussion focused. You are trying to expand this discussion to criticise my actions and shift the clear focus on the disruptive actions by Iaof2017. If you have a problem with any of my actions, please open a separate section either here, or at a suitable noticeboard. Otherwise, please don't try to connect your perception of my past actions to the sheer incompetence and disruption caused by Iaof2017. Also read my message to Iaof2017 to get an idea of the size of cluelessness of that acoount. And please leave the lectures about this article being a "preserve of a few "experienced" editors". Iaof2017's disruption makes this type of argument silly. As far as the image copyright discussion, I don't think FOP applies to street signs. Dr. K. 13:50, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
In the previous comment i just went about it the way you did referring to Ktrimi's past block which was completely uncalled for the purposes of this discussion. As good faith needs to be observed and the benefit of doubt, no one is lecturing although certain comments can be taken as such either way. On Iaof2017, yes the editor does need to lift their game in style and other matters. Looking at the editor's talkpage they have received praise [[2]] for the creation of articles such as Biodiversity of Kosovo. So Iaof2017 is showing progress. In here there is issues though the question is on how to proceed ? Is this a case of only competence issues and if so how can improvements be made, as the editor has not violated rules by socking.Resnjari (talk) 14:06, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Well, yes and no. When Ktrimi starts misusing WP:TW to send vandalism warnings to established editors for restoring a picture to this article, AGF is good but, one has to look at the block log to see why such a level of TW misuse has occurred. Seeing that their last block was for a week, I thought that telling this editor to slow down was a good idea. As far as Iaof2017, he is an outlier. He has so many similarities to the Igaalbania socks, that s/he baffles me to this day. But I accept the SPI results and I am not calling him a sock. However, what sticks to my mind is his recent reply to Diannaa's latest copyright problem message: "Ok Thank you for informing me, to be honest i didnt know that. That will not happend again!". To be honest, really? How many times has he repeated almost the same reply in the past few months? I mean, AGF can go so far. Can this editor improve? I am not sure. It's a matter of probabilities and his/her net worth to this project. If he is to stay here, perhaps a mentor can help him/her. But that discussion is for another time and place. Dr. K. 15:10, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I can't understand the reason for Ktrimi's aggression, especially in what appears to be a disagreement with the specific image. Perhaps a more serious argument would be helpful compared to this one [[3]].Alexikoua (talk) 15:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Dr.K., it is true that FOP does not apply to mere street signposts.
Resnjari, an editor who reverts the same article three or more times, day after day, is violating not just the letter of the 3RR rule, but also the spirit of the rule, which is to not follow this tactic when they don't like something, and can thus be sanctioned for edit-warring even in the case where you can assert or assume that the editor has improved/can improve himself on other fields. The consequences of such aggression should not be ignored and skipped just because the incompetent editors have made positive contributions elsewhere in Wikipedia. --SILENTRESIDENT 17:17, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
The pic wasn't in article. Khirurg added it. His action was opposed by Iaof2017. Khirurg and others who want that pic in article have one path: discuss and find an agreement. Alexikoua added the pic again (even though its inclusion in article had been opposed for weeks) and said that I had not explained the reason I reverted Khirurg. I had explained the reason, and this together with Alexikoua's insistence to avoid civil discussion makes my warning very helpful. Dr.K. you should thank me. I did the right thing. If Alexikoua repeats his mistake, I will warn him again.
The first days are difficult for Albanian editors. You know why. My block log doesn't give you the right to revert me. The block log, even if it is clear doesn't help. Dr.K. you know this from your own experience. You have a clear block log and you are not what you want to be. We know the reason. Alexikoua and Khirurg have an impressive block log. I am not going to count how many times they were blocked. To focus on this case, you stated you don't want to discuss, reverted a newbie because they are according to you "a disruptive editor", "has obvious memory problems" and "simply incompetent" (we shouldn't discuss Iaof2017's first and difficult days, a result of the unfriendly place Wikipedia is but your disruptive behaviour). This is not enough to revert someone. If you don't have any other reason to add that pic in this article, I will delete it again.
Alexikoua you don't understand the reason for my "aggression". You should read the reason for my "aggression" above. I know what "aggression" means. I have found myself in some situations in an unjust way. For example, someone (nobody from those who have participated in this discussion) told someone else to attack me. I didn't react because I knew their actions would be fruitless. I will react if I find myself in a wrong situation apparently caused by the same person or not. That person will curse the day he attacked me if he repeats his mistake. Another editor has commented too, they are welcomed to participate in the discussion if they have something to say other than repeat what Dr.K. has said. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
I have just warned User:Ktrimi991 on his talk page: link. I am urgently calling on all editors here to stop immediately this intentional and malicious use of certain words, epithets, names or information when referring to their collaborators, as this form of WP:HARASSMENT is sufficient ground by itself for an immediate block. In the event this is repeated, action will be taken immediately against the offender. Please, everyone to refrain from such forms of harassment in the future and conduct any discussions in a civil manner and without compromising the environment. --SILENTRESIDENT 23:50, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you SR. This is typical aggressive behaviour, with some elements that are threatening or simply trolling. Especially when Ktrimi wrote: You have a clear block log and you are not what you want to be. We know the reason. This guy is either a member of a gang of amateur magicians (notice the plural "we") who purport to be able to read my thoughts, or, most likely, s/he is simply trolling. In that case I wouldn't pay too much attention to his/her words. Although, if this behaviour continues it may well be a good candidate for an ANI report. Dr. K. 01:27, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
I deleted the "warning". I am not the one who has done wrong things here. WP:Don't bite the newbies, reverts because other editor who don't think the same way is "a disruptive editor", "has obvious memory problems" and "simply incompetent", discussions on everything expect of content dispute (which is the reason why this section was created) and misuse of talk. Some months ago Khirurg was warned after he violated WP:CIVILITY with his threats to me. SILENT has only "warned" others since they entered this discussion (has said nothing on content dispute). By the way, who are "collaborators" here?
Pustec
I asked you to discuss on content dispute and you didn't do so. The Greek minority in Albania is well presented throughout article. The other minorities do not have that focus. This pic is good. It shows a bilingual directional road sign in Albanian and Macedonian (in latin and cyrilic alphabet, a language used by a minority group) and a bilingual informational road sign for tourists in Albanian and English (a language used by tourists). Ktrimi991 (talk) 09:38, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
I highly recommend you do not ignore my warnings. If you seriously believe that you can harass the others and escape consequences due to being new editor in Wikipedia, then you are seriously in need of some education on Wikipedia rules and standards. WP:Harassment is not tolerated in any form, and due to its violent nature, the offenders face severe consequences regardless of their time in Wikipedia. The next time you refer to Khirurg or anyone else here by a different name or epithet like how you did here: link and here: link you find yourself being reported and banned. Expect no compromises when it comes to harassment, be it from new or old editors. And yes, this talkpage is on my watchlist and I may participate to a discussion, either in part or in whole and whenever it pleases me. Be careful. --SILENTRESIDENT 12:15, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
I could have supported your proposal to replace the Albanian/Greek bilingual signpost with another one such as your proposed Albanian/Macedonian one, but the ill-intented and disruptive way you have handled things these days, both on the article and on the talk of Albania, has made me now very wary of your true intentions. I do not know you, nor I have followed your past interactions with other editors, but I have observed the developments these days and I can only tell you that your actions and attitude are not the way to building consensus with other users and certainly has undermined my trust to your pursued changes on the article's content. I am sorry but do not expect my support on this. --SILENTRESIDENT 12:30, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
On claims of Ktrimi991's alleged "aggression", since some things have been cited here and looking into it a sock investigation that was launched into him a while back made claims that were unfounded ([4] also an editor involved here in this discussion who launched the investigation into Ktrimi991 made some claims that have their own questions regarding privacy and possible violations of Wikipedia policy on that front). And some Albanian editors do feel that subtle//indirect "warnings" of going to an ANI or other investigations get mainly aimed at Albanian editors. Ktrimi991's sentiments here appear to be within that context. Other editors ought to also take on board advice regarding perceived aggression as unfounded sock investigations can be viewed by an editor as intimidation tactics which only sour the process of editing which when interactions to occur have endless time wasting discussions about nothing. Has anything productive emerged out of this here, instead of making the article better? Good faith on everyone's part.Resnjari (talk) 14:28, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
It's still weird that one editor can't present a serious argument for the removal of a specific image. Comments like Iaof2017 is a newbie editor or I've removed this picture because Iaof removed this previously can't be considered as part of a constructive discussion. They simply fall into wp:DISRUPTION.Alexikoua (talk) 19:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Though images are not my thing, since you insist the question posed to you is why should that image be in the article when there is a image showing bilingual signage in Albania that displays minority language signage alongside other foreign language signage, all in one picture. Since many of you keep referring to sandwiching of multiple images and disruption, why should the previous image which has less on it be in the article, when an alternative exists showing more (i.e hitting to birds with one stone)? A simple answer and resolution if this is really about issues of "sandwiching" and "disruption".Resnjari (talk) 20:52, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
I did some research on internet. According to international sources, (e.g. see Second Most Spoken Language Index: link) today, in Albania, the second most spoken language after the Albanian language, is the Greek language, with the Italian language following third. That is because it is not only spoken among the Greek minority, but also among many Albanians, because a large part of the Albanian migrants and the Diaspora have been/are migrants to Greece. Since the picture in question is in the Languages section, I think it is excellent idea to keep the current picture as is, since it is showing the two most spoken languages in the country today. As for Ktrimi991's argument that the other minorities do not have that focus, I suggest that this is done elsewhere (i.e. "Culture" section of the article) since the Macedonian language isn't exactly as representative in terms of amount of people speaking it unlike the Greek, while focus can still be given to them on aspects of life that characterize this minority (i.e. food, music or culture). --SILENTRESIDENT 04:53, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

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Main article: Agriculture in Albania, Primary sector.[edit]

"The fish available off the coasts of Albania are carp, trout, sea bream, mussels, and crustaceans." I believe that carps and trouts are freshwater fish and wouldn't be found off the coast. L.Heid86.68.3.139 (talk) 11:56, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Map[edit]

very surprised that the two maps in the right column do not show Kosovo, only Serbia. I would update it but I don't know how. Bangabandhu (talk) 03:47, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

DEMOGRAPHICS OF ALBANIA[edit]

Is it okay to refresh the informations and delete some irrelevant informations within the Population and Religion section? The sections are just concentrated into the 2011 census; we have now 2017 and i think we can change that! thanks would be amazing.

Updates are always welcome, provided that you can supply reliable sources. So if you have the sources, go for it. And don't forget to sign your posts! (P.S. I've noticed you use the word "correcture" a lot in your edit summaries. I think you may be thinking of the German word "Korrektur", but the correct English word is "correction".) LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 14:50, 19 July 2017 (UTC)