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Ranked 6 by literacy rate?[edit]

International rankings section claims rank 6 by literacy rate without any citation, Education sector claims 98.7% literacy rate with a valid citation. Bit of a contradiction there, a citation needed situation for sure.

Historical name of Albania[edit]

hey guys, i want to ask you if it is possible or okay to put the historical name of Albania ("Arbëria") on the informations in the top or is there any problem ..? Thank you

Can anyone add this page to the Southern European countries category?[edit]

Since I can't edit the page to add the category at the bottom due to the extended protection.Vesperius (talk) 22:43, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Maps again[edit]

Khirurg while I am not categorically against placing the language-religion map in another place, this is by fact a contravention of the ceasefire/compromise accepted on RSN last year. As such it requires discussion and acceptance from those involved. Pings to others who were involved in the agreement: SilentResident Resnjari Alexikoua Ktrimi991. Not pinging the other (all Albanian: Vargmali, BesART, AceDouble; there are some others I forgot the names of as I don't see them much, no offense) ones who were involved in the January dispute or later disputes about the maps that didn't participate in this agreement.--Calthinus (talk) 17:54, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

As far as I recall there was no agreement on where the map should be placed, so there is no "contravention" of anything. Anyway, this is extremely trivial and petty, as all I did in effect was just switch the order of the maps, with the census map now placed second and your map third. Also, please be clear on where you stand. "while I am not categorically against" means nothing. Khirurg (talk) 17:58, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Also, having all 3 maps sequentially in the same section created a huge white space that disfigured the article. It's still there now, just smaller. I'm minded to move one of the two maps to the left side. Khirurg (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The agreement is that the maps must be "side-by-side". Moving one to the left is okay to me. Left/right is side by side as I see it, at least. Moving one to another section without agreement from all the editors party to the agreement is starting to venture into dangerous waters, which imo is not in the interest of any of the six of us. But I am speaking only for myself here.--Calthinus (talk) 21:17, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
"Side by side"? Said who? First, where is that agreement, can you provide a link? Second, side by side is impossible, as there are three maps. And third, do you think that huge white space is ideal? Khirurg (talk) 23:51, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
No I don't think white space is ideal, and I have removed it. It's from the RSN. It was the compromise (or uh... "ceasefire") proposed by the others (non-Balkan editors), SilentResident and Resnjari agreed to it, I agreed to it, Alexi agreed with it, and I guess... Ktrimi991... went along? Idk. Looking at the thread again (it's long...) you seem to have to left before people moved past calling each other names, after lobbing some real fluffy and cuddly adjectives at myself. So maybe you missed it, in all fairness to you. And yeah, great times. Let's not repeat them. I have honorably enforced the compromise and reverted various attempts at removals, by Albanians, of Alexi's map (which no, I do not think is good, but it was necessary to do). Please respect it too. Cheers. --Calthinus (talk) 05:03, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
The consensus concerned 2 maps, not 3. The one about the disputed '11 census was not even part of the discussion that lead to the concsnsus.Alexikoua (talk) 14:26, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Alexikoua Correct. However the version with the census map, including the caption that it was disputed -- which I have supported -- was the consensus version for this page. But, I can agree to move the... troubled... census map to the Demographics section (keeping the caption). Of course it's problematic also for omitting Bosniaks, Armenians, and failing to acknowledge "Macedonians" who in some cases actually have diff identities (Bulg., Gorani, "Slavophone Albanian", Gollobordas, Prespar, "Aegean"... it's never simple, same shit with their cousins in Greece historically of course). Entaksei ya sas? Dhe ty Ktrimi991, and Khirurg? Come a few years we'll have a new and hopefully better one.--Calthinus (talk) 15:47, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Well, at a minimum, the maps should be the same size, and currently they are not. Also, please don't attack me in your edit-summaries, I'm not following you around, Kosovo has been on my watchlist for years. Khirurg (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Okay -- sorry, my bad, I have never seen you on that page, and really didn't expect you to independently reinstate the edits of a self-portrayed "Kekistani", I think we can both agree you're more cosmopolitan than that :). Current version work?--Calthinus (talk) 16:10, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
No, it's not. It makes no sense to have the census map of minorities outside the minority section. The opening of the Demographics section is not about minorities or ethnicity. Previous version was better. Khirurg (talk) 16:19, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
@Calthinus: The part of the Demographics section before the Minorities sub-section is not about ethnic groups. Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:43, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Ok so then the two of you are in agreement... back to status quo version, as per this page's consensus (the 3) and the RSN (the 2)?--Calthinus (talk) 18:40, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
The page should revert to the stable version of the page prior to @Khirurg's changes as there was no consensus for shrinkages or other such like changes.Resnjari (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
@Resnjari: Khirurg tried to do some changes but was reverted. Calthinus made the changes you are referring to. I do not fully understand what is the difference because I am accessing Wiki on the phone. Anyhow, the size of the two pics does not affect the neutrality of the article. Make the reverts if you wish to keep the previous version. Ktrimi991 (talk) 22:13, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Whatever I did involving the failed compromise attempts with Alexi/Khirurg can be reverted under CONSENSUS.-Calthinus (talk) 01:03, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
The layout of the maps was fine prior to Moxy's edits on the 24th of September. This whole matter was initiated after those edits to which not all editors agree to [1] happened. Prior to the 24th of September, the previous version which had held for many months maintained the peace.Resnjari (talk) 19:02, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Ok, no problem. Khirurg (talk) 19:04, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 October 2018[edit]

change [1] to [2] (talk) 14:21, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Not done Why? Fish+Karate 09:38, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Minority section![edit]

What do you think if we move the informations from the "Minorities" section to a separate new article? I think that it may be too long for the length of the "Demography" section. Thanks! --Lorik17 (talk) 20:38, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

The creation of an article dedicated to minorities is not a bad idea. However, removal of any information on minorities from this article is out of the question. Khirurg (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Why out of the question ? I think that this section is rather inappropriate for this article but anyways, thank you in advance!--Lorik17 (talk) 20:56, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

There is nothing "inappropriate" about the section, all countries have minorities and all country articles have a section on minorities. But if it's really length you are concerned about (let's pretend), I can think of several areas where one could make cutbacks that would improve the article, such as in the History section. Have a nice day. Khirurg (talk) 21:11, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Khirurg Actually all Balkan countries I checked do not have a "minorities" section -- Greece, Serbia, Macedonia (surprisingly, given this is the country with the largest minorities), Bosnia, Croatia, BulgariaIaof2017 While I get where you're coming from here, frankly I'm not willing to fight about this. And Khirurg is right, there is no way you will be able to remove the section-- speaking as someone who knows how these things end up -- and I highly advise you not to try it. You've been doing well expanding projects like Biodiversity of Albania, geography articles and the like. Albania's rich natural environment deserves still more expansion -- it has the most cases of species surviving there but extinct elsewhere in Europe. Keep that up.--Calthinus (talk) 04:18, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
First of all thank you for the answers, i totally agree with you guys and i honestly don't want to make any edits on this section or delete something but i compared the article with other countries and noticed that they don't have a minority section, therefore i thought its better to replace the informations in a new article but i can see that is not possible and yes ..--Lorik17 (talk) 13:38, 17 October 2018 (UTC)


That Albanians have moved to Greece since the Middle Ages is pretty simple to accept. If a persuasive rationale is not provided, the removed part will be restored again. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:44, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

They didn't move "since" the Middle Ages, the moved during the Middle Ages. The problem though is that the articles states they moved to escape the Ottoman conquest, which is not the case for the ancestors of the Arvanites. They moved for other reasons. So it's incorrect to say that "Albanians moved to Greece in the Middle Ages to escape the Ottomans". It is also nonsensical, since Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire at the time, unlike Italy. Khirurg (talk) 20:52, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
The Albanian diaspora has been formed since the Middle Ages, when they emigrated to places such as Italy, especially in Sicily and Calabria, and Greece to escape either various socio-political difficulties or Ottoman conquest of Albania. Thus, the article gives two alternative reasons. Only one of them is for Greece. If your concern are the reasons, we can modify them. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:57, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
On second thought, I think that's fine. I had missed the "either". Never mind. Khirurg (talk) 20:59, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
This could be solved by changing the wording to something like this: The Albanian diaspora has been formed since the Middle Ages, when they emigrated because of the Ottoman conquest of Albania to places such as Italy, especially in Sicily and Calabria, and also Greece and other regions to escape various socio-political difficulties in Albania of that period. FkpCascais (talk) 21:04, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
I am happy we agree on this. Cheers, Ktrimi991 (talk) 21:05, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
@FkpCascais: We edited in the same time and I did not read your comment before posting my latest one. One good version could be by adding Croatia/Dalmatia as another place where many Albanians moved to in the Middle Ages. The Albanian diaspora has been formed since the Middle Ages, when they emigrated because of the Ottoman conquest of Albania to places such as Italy, especially in Sicily and Calabria, Greece and Dalmatia to escape various socio-political difficulties in Albania of that period. Ktrimi991 (talk) 21:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
No problem at all, I undestood that. Well... yes... I was just writting a comment to mention that Albanians probably since that time also moved to North as well. Not only Dalmatia, but towards Niš as well, and inner Serbia, as far as Wallachia actually. But I guess mentioning emigration towards that direction is not popular because of your tendency to suggest that Albanians in those regions are autochtone, and not emmigrants. FkpCascais (talk) 21:17, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
Albanians in Serbia and Serbs in Albania are not diaspora. Albanians in Croatia are diaspora. The word "autochtone" means nothing. It is just a wrong nationalistic concept. After all, Indo-Europeans immigrated to their current territories rather lately. Ktrimi991 (talk) 21:22, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
  1. ^ "Regjistrimi: 70% e banorëve nuk kanë deklaruar besimin fetar". Ateistët. Archived from the original on 8 August 2017. Retrieved 18 April 2012.
  2. ^ "Regjistrimi: 70% e banorëve nuk kanë deklaruar besimin fetar" Check |url= value (help). Ateistët. Retrieved 2012-04-18.