Talk:Albert II of Belgium
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|WikiProject Biography / Royalty and Nobility||(Rated Start-class)|
|WikiProject Belgium||(Rated Start-class, High-importance)|
|A news item involving Albert II of Belgium was featured on Wikipedia's main page in the In the news section on 4 July 2013.|
- 1 Untitled
- 2 alteration of the law of succession in Belgium
- 3 Article name
- 4 Overloading article
- 5 Albert II's photo
- 6 Albert II descends from the Sun King!
- 7 Political Info
- 8 Health
- 9 full name
- 10 Boel allegations
- 11 Godparents
- 12 Saxe-Coburg & Gotha
- 13 Removed BLP violation
- 14 Abdication
Jtdirl removed the following:
which had been added by User:188.8.131.52. Jtdirl stated on that user's talk page, "They are extremely serious allegations for which no evidence has ever been produced." Which is pretty much exactly what the contributor said in the first place! I am not replacing the statement myself, as I hadn't heard about this, but if there were such rumours, and if they were well-known, then they should be mentioned in the article. Articles should be as complete as possible. -- Oliver P. 03:30, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
alteration of the law of succession in Belgium
... thanks to a 1991 alteration of the law of succession from eldest surviving child to eldest surviving son,
This should be the other way around: now any child, either male or female, can inherit the throne.
Agreed ,the 1991 Act of Succession ,does indeed say the eldest (surviving) child (regardless of gender) ,does ascend the Throne.
- Actually, as you word it, should Philip die before his father, the eldest surviving child of the monarch would succeed. That would be Astrid. This is not true. If Philip predeceases then his daughter Elisabeth would become heir to the throne as eldest child of the predeceased crown prince and would become crown princess in her own right between her father's death and her grandfather's death. -- fdewaele 10:40 CET
- Personally, I don't think that matters. His majesty's official title is "King of the Belgians", after it has been changed on purpose from "King of Belgium" somewhere during the last century, in an effort to make clear that the King should be there for his people, and not the other way around. Ignoring that here seems wrong to me Yoe 16:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I dunno what the hell you're talking about love, but the title has not been "changed on purpose" in the last century. Belgina Monarchs have NEVER been styled 'King of Belgium'. Since it's inception in 1830, the title has always been 'King of the Belgians'. Indisciplined (talk) 17:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
to Wilfried Derksen. You are overloading the article with frames which are either irrelevant or only slightly relevant at best. It doesn't make easy reading either. -- fdewaele 30 October 2005 16:43 (CET)
Albert II's photo
The article looked better with an image of the King. The coin just doesn't do the article justice. GoodDay 22:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
ALL pictures of the Belgian royal family are - according to Belgian law - in the public domain and need no reference whatsoever; so please someone put it back!
It is generally aknowledged that: Since the state pays ANY member of the Belgian royal family an annual sum of money IN ORDER TO FULLFILL THEIR PUBLIC FUNCTION all of their pictures are in the public domain as well.There has been a row recently over prince Laurent who wanted to sell some PRIVATE pictures of his family: He was publicly corrected by prime minister Verhofstadt! 184.108.40.206 15:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- Not all pictures of the Belgian royal family are in the public domain. Most of them belong to news agencies.--Ganchelkas 10:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone change the picture? I don't find it appropriate that the king of Belgium is standing next to George Bush in the main picture.--Oliver92Tom 19:07, 1 April 2007 (CET)
- Don't worry, I'm sure the President doesn't mind being seen standing next to such a person. It doesn't demean the President, it only enhances the King, if it helps you to look at it this way. Danthemankhan 05:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
- The picture should be changed. President Bush and the First Lady are not needed here, valuable as they are elsewhere. In fact it may not even be necessary to have a picture of the Queen on this article which is about Albert II. And I believe that we on Wikipedia can do better than the photo of the King on the article "Monarchy of Belgium".Marktunstill (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- I have put the old picture back. Not because I am a fan of President Bush —although I do find it childish to delete the picture just because it has Mr Bush in it—, but because I doubt the person in the previous picture really is King Albert II. I think it is some look-alike pretending to be the Belgian King. King Albert II has a different hair-colour. Ivo von Rosenqvist (talk) 07:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- I have put the new picture back. Although I am interested in your opinion, "I think it is some look-alike...", you cite no authority in support. Mr Bush is very welcome in the appropriate circumstances as is Mrs Bush, as is the Queen; however this is an article about the King, not the group in the photo. If you would kindly try to find another pic of the King in the public domain for further discussion that would be constructive.Marktunstill (talk) 16:20, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- You must agree that is rather difficult to find a decent written source that accurately describes the Belgian King's hair-colour. Nonetheless, how do you explain that the King's hair-colour is much lighter in the current picture than it is in this recent picture? Did he dye his hair? Ivo von Rosenqvist (talk) 16:35, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, as to the dye only a hairdresser could tell and I cannot help as far as that is concerned. However, the current picture is outdoors and the [very dignified] one in this recent picture is indoors (in rather sombre surroundings). Why not ask the photographer who gave permission to use the current photo about it? Marktunstill (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- I asked the photographer. I also had a look at the other photographs he uploaded. Apart from the photograph of King Albert II, the contributor also uploaded a rather suspicious-looking photograph of Queen Paola, and a photograph of the Princess Marie-Esméralda. The latter is hardly a public figure in Belgium. On being asked, a majority of the Belgians would fail to recognize her. On this photograph however one can see the Princess Marie-Esméralda. She is the second person from the right. Do you see any resemblance between the two women?
- I think the person who uploaded the photographs might be a prankster. Perhaps we could ask someone who knows anything about the Belgian army whether the King's uniform cap is authentic. Ivo von Rosenqvist (talk) 22:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, come to a consensus between you and stop the endless reverting of each other. Perhaps President and Mrs. Bush could be cropped out of the photo? Danthemankhan 15:13, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- On further review it appears that wouldn't result in a very large picture. But I'm sure you guys can come to an amicable, mutually-agreeable solution. Danthemankhan 15:15, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- What is really odd is that we on Wikipedia don't seem able to obtain a good likeness of the King which is in the public domain! Any chance anyone can go and attend the King on a public occasion and take a snap for the article please? I'm 4,500 miles away from Belgium but if he comes here (FL) I'll have a go! Marktunstill (talk) 23:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
- We may write the King's public relations secretary (or whoever is responsible for dealing with the public), and I am sure that they will be able to provide us with a decent portrait of the King in an official pose and attire.
We are unable to find a picture better than this disgraceful one because the official sources (such as the royal family webiste) have only tiny and quite outdated photos of the king (when posing alone). As for images from elsewhere - we basically don't even need non-public domain photos (i.e. from news agencies etc.), since they wouldn't represent the King in offical attire and pose - which is the only way to represent a monarch in an encyclopaedia. Those that do represent him in such manner are definitely in the PD, as perscribed by Belgian law. Such photographs can only be obtained, I think, from official royal or government sources by writing to them, as mentioned above. --B. Jankuloski (talk) 00:04, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Albert II descends from the Sun King!
It was a hot topic on the Dutch wikipedia but it is true : Albert II is a direct descendant of the Sun King!.
This is why:
He is a son of Louis Philippe II, Duke of Orléans,son of Louis Philippe I, Duke of Orléans, son of Louis of Bourbon, Duke of Orléans. He is a son of "Francoise-Marie de Bourbon, Mademoiselle de Blois" (French Wikipedia article about her : ). She is a daughter of Louis XIV of France.
Evilbu 21:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- but what's the extra informational value of this particular descend? Why is it exceptionally noteworthy? None methinks. After all, Albert descends from the Swedish monarchs, etcetera as well... After all, all European monarchs are related to each other and to renowned predecessors. Why not start mentioning all other renowned monarchs he's decended from? -- fdewaele, 27 October 2006, 20:00 CET
Could someone add information about Albert as a king? This article as it stands now, shows only basic geneological information, which, while informative, doesn't really say anything about him as a king. Morhange 00:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
- There is no such information, for a very good reason: the Belgian constitution explicitly excludes the King from any politics. His children, the princes and princesses, however, do have a right to sit in the Belgian Senate (Prince Philippe and his sister, Princess Astrid, are currently both doing so) Yoe 16:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
This is not correct. The King DOES have a political role. He's head of state. The Belgian Constitution clearly describes it. In practice, however, the Belgian Government is acting as "The King" as described in the Constitution. I'm not a specialist but The King is still personally involved in politics for the following : LEGISLATIVE : 1. The King gives Royal assent to every law. When the King Baudouin refused to do so for the law legalising abortion, he abdicated for 2 days in order to let the law be signed by the Ministers only. 2. The Kings children have a seat in Belgian Parliament (the Senate). EXECUTIVE : 1. He appoints the "Formateur". This is the perosn in charge of creating a new Government after elections for PArliament have take place. 2. In some cases (when the creation of the Government is difficult - this is very possible in complicated country as Belgium), the King kan also appoint an "Informateur" who will later on assist the King to appoint a "Formateur" with more chances to get a new Government. 3. The Government is formally appointed by the King. In practice, though, it's an agreement between political parties. 4. The King co-signs every executive decision of the Governement JUDICIAL : 1. The King can pardon convicts. It seldom happens, but it does.
Recently, Albert fell a broke his hip. Can someone add this to the article (with appropiate citation)? GoodDay 20:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
Do we really have to give his full name in three nearly identical forms at the very beginning of the article before even saying who he is? Even having to include the Dutch and, especially, German forms at all seems essentially superfluous - the guy is a native French speaker, and his full name is never used by anyone anyway. But certainly having to include all three forms, none of which are ever used, as the first piece of information in the article is genuinely ridiculous. john k (talk) 18:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I have moved this paragraph to its own section near the bottom of the article, although even that might be too much emphasis for information from this patently unreliable source. (The real story was over the reaction to it, not the allegations themselves.) It does not belong in the "Marriage and family" section by any stretch, since -- even in the unlikely event it was true -- an unacknowledged illegitimate child is not part of the family. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 00:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Given that Delphine Boël has claimed in an interview that she is indeed King Albert's daughter, this article is incorrect to state that she made no comment. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 00:16, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
- When I look at pictures of her I think that she looks a lot like her grandmother Queen Astrid. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Being godparents seems to be a big thing in those (royalty) circles. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:52, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Saxe-Coburg & Gotha
I don't think the King and the Duke of Brabant are in line to the former throne of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. During World War I King Albert I and his descendants were removed from the succession in that Duchy. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:56, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
You are correct-the 1917 House Law of the Ducal House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha specifically excluded those from succession to the (then existant) throne who had fought against the German Empire-so that would exclude both the Belgian and the British royal families, though not the Bulgarian or Portuguese or any of the other branches of the Ducal House.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 09:35, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- That is right. The Portuguese branch however is extinct now. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 13:02, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed. You are right about that, but the whole issue became moot just one year later when the Duchy was abolished. By the way, I have removed the Saxe-Coburg part from the succession box in the article since reading your comment. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 19:42, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Removed BLP violation
I have just removed a completely unsourced, massive BLP violation from the "marriage and family" section. Without clear and extremely specific direct sourcing for each fact in that paragraph (and by that I mean every fact must be referenced to a reliable source, and inline references must be given, and those references must be to specific pages of reliable books, newspapers, or websites and not just to the book or newspaper or website in general), this must not be re-added. Our rules for biographies of living persons are very clear in this: no matter how well-known editors think such "facts" are, they absolutely must not remain under any circumstance unless they are clearly sourced, with footnotes attached to the sentences in question, to reliable, disinterested third parties. --NellieBly (talk) 11:52, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
After the abdication King Albert II will keep the title King and will not revert to prince. (http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/130702_troonswissel_interessanteweetjes and http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/reax%2Btroonsafstand%2BAlbert%2BII/MV_130703_TA_Orshoven but only available in Dutch) He will only not be king in the constitutional sense. Also, when the King's address was taped, there were four journalists (one for each of the four major networks) invited to attend it. According to them, as stated in the TV journals, the King offered a little drink afterwards and spoke with them after the taping and he himself confirmed to them that, with the example of his father Leopold III in mind, he will keep the title "King" because otherwise it would be too awkward. So no reverting to the lesser title as is for instance the custom in the Netherlands (Wilhelmina, Juliana and Beatrix)-- fdewaele, 3 July 2013, 20:17 (CET)