Talk:Album-oriented rock

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Who raped the article?[edit]

There used to be great information regarding Core Artists, "Forgotten" Artists who once received much airplay in this category, and a list of radio stations. Why was all of this removed? - (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

The fanboy/fancruft lists were all removed because they were unencyclopedic and useless. (talk) 15:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
To say they're "useless" is VERY POV!!! Why do you harbor such a contemptment for classic rock? I learned of some great music from reading that list, music I wouldn't hear on AOR stations today. It was VERY useful and VERY relevant. - (talk) 01:09, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Nothing useless or irrelevant about those links. They fit in perfectly with what you already had. So why not keep them where they were? They shouldn't have been deleted. Why not include these lost artists with rock history? Lost artists often make (and complete) the rock spectrum. It isn't right to forget the overlooked/underplayed artists of AOR's past. That's just wrong. No matter how distant or obscure these artists were, they are still a part of AOR history. Rockonster01 (talk) 05:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Adult/album oriented rock[edit]

AOR is term mostly used for "adult oriented rock", which has NO hint for album etc. (teens do have money to buy albums) - aor means the type of slow melodic but not "noisy" rock oriented to adults, typical bands are TOTO and Foreigner, but NOT Pink Floyd - which belongs mostly to Progressive Rock category, please listen my favorite Pink Floyd piece "Interstellar Highway".--arl Album oriented rock in Japan and Europe is usually west coast albums usually produced by David Foster, Jay Graydon, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knowitallmusic (talkcontribs) 19:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Ummm... I believe you are confused. 1st of all, the song is Interstellar Overdrive by Pink Floyd. Secondly this page is for the Radio Format AOR which indeed played Pink Floyd constantly. You are likely confused with the music genre AOR or Melodic Rock which is largely a recent, but retro style that is mostly inspired by some bands that received airplay on AOR radio stations in the late 70s and early 80s. These bands (somewhat popular in their day), like Touch, Roadmaster, 707, etc - never made the jump to the classic rock format. In recent years, mainly outside the US, there has been wave of bands aping this style. --DannyRay 19:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Pink Floyd is big on the AOR format. Same with other 'progressive rock' bands like Yes. --Fightingirish 14:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The list in this article is absurd. Black Sabbath is NOT AOR.--annon

I've heard a lot of Black Sabbath on AOR stations. "Paranoid" and "Iron Man" are pretty popular tracks.--Fightingirish 14:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree- the list here is completely misleading and simply covers many genres that are simply not AOR. If people are in agreement I will try and re-categorise the 'pure' AOR bands and include a sub-category of 'sub-AOR' for those groups that touched on the genre at times during their career but could also cross over into hard rock, prog etc. Harryurz 18:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the list is fine (though there are a few questionable artists on there). I removed obvious ridiculous entries like a-ha (I've never heard them played on an AOR station, and I certainly never heard Kate Bush on an AOR - though it would be cool if they did). This list should be a representative overall sample of artists played on AOR stations since the beginning of the format in the 1970s. Some might seem strange, like Seals & Crofts, but they did get airplay in the format back in the 1970s. Perhaps the list should be separated into categories like 'artists on AOR stations today' and 'artists that were played on AOR in the past'. This could get confusing, since AOR has more or less split off into different genres like active rock and classic rock. --Fightingirish 14:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

They need an AOR disambiguation page, AOR can also meen "Area Of Responsibility" in where military forces may be assigned.M jurrens 16:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the A is for "album" rather than "adult". One key feature of AOR stations that distinguised it from say, top-40 was that they played not only the official singles from a given album, but often played other cuts from the albums that were never released as singles.

In the radio industry, the "A" in "AOR" stands for "Album", not "Adult". There is no radio format with the official name "Adult-oriented Rock". There is, however, "Rock AC". --Fightingirish 14:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I recall that just before Tripple A was coined (mid-to-late 80s?), stations leaning in that direction were called Adult Oriented Rock. They were softer in sound but perhaps the playlist was deeper than AOR in the 80s. In those days KEZX in Seattle may have fell under this catagory. --DannyRay 19:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Also I agree the list is suspect. There are notable ommissions, and there are other artists listed who'd barely get airplay on an AOR station (Rick Springfield ?!?) -- 16:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

AOR is a radio history term and should be categorized here as Album Oriented Rock:

In radio terms, AOR exclusively referred to the Album Oriented Rock format that evolved from "progressive radio" in the 1970s on the FM band. As radio became more formulaic and playlisted, AOR was used to identify stations that had a core playlist of more hard-rock and (usually) innovative artists vs. pop hits on the Billboard Charts. This is clearly documented in the radio trade magazines from the late 1970s/early 1980s period (e.g. The Album Network, Radio and Records, the Friday Morning Quarterback by Bill Hard.)
An underlying premise of AOR was NOT to be hit radio. In the 1970s, bands like Foreigner were considered "progressive" yet by the 80s they were considered a "hit band." (I don't mean that in a negative way - just making a distinction of how a band that was once "underground" became "mainstream.")
The lines started blurring in the 1980s when so many new artists - progressive, innovative, quirky, and just plain lucky - started becoming more accepted by the "mainstream" in the 80s. Many of these acts became part of what was the new "Top 40" - CHR (Contemporary Hit Radio). At times CHR was the format to embrace many of the "new" artists while AOR stations struggled with whether to keep their dinosaur rock format or finally accept the "new generation" of artists that were "progressive" and having hits at the same time. Many stations struggled with hybrid formats during the first part of the 80s. Many stations converted to CHR. Others stuck to their AOR guns. This might be why the AOR "list" in question contains artists that some do not consider AOR and others do. For example, as AOR was peaking, Bryan Adams might have been considered an AOR artist but after the shakeout he fell into the CHR category.
Regardless, music continues to change as do the radio formats that try to identify it. AOR is truly a term of history. It has not evolved into Adult Oriented Rock. Perhaps what was once called AOR is now Classic Rock and "current" AOR is "Adult Contemporary."Boonog (talk) 05:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)DD aka TheBoonog

Are There Still AOR Stations[edit]

While a few radio stations may be currently known as AOR, by and large radio format really doesn't exist any longer. The closest format for comparison is Active Rock or Triple A. The Classic Rock format culls its core tracks from the heyday of AOR - but in reality most stations just use an oldies approach to programming, focusing on the AOR hits that crossed over to Top 40. --DannyRay 19:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Here in Edmonton, Alberta, both K-97 FM (97.3) and 100.3 The Bear, usually play the ALBUM version of a whole lotta songs on the AOR list in this article. They are probably more "Classic Rock" or "Active Rock" as a genre, but when I saw the list of songs, I was shocked there are such SHORT versions of classics that are in the 6-8 minute range (can't imagine enjoying a 3 minute version of Layla, for example ;) ) (talk) 16:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd say that musicians like Shania Twain, Kelly Clarkson, Lifehouse, Mariah Carey, Rihanna, and Green Day are also AOR because we have an AOR station in my area that plays them as well as REO Speedwagon, Pure Prairie League, Boston, Doobie Brothers, Journey, and other AOR bands.

That is not an AOR station. Sounds like either a Hot AC or an adult hits format. AOR doesn't play Mariah Carey and Kelly Clarkson. Green Day, yes.--Fightingirish 14:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Here in the Twin Cities we have a station that is closer to AOR than Classic Rock. KQ92. Plays alot more long cuts and deep cuts and plays newer music also like Rush's Far Cry andMy Sweet Love by John Cougar And of course the new AC/DC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

The LISTS[edit]

This page has extensive lists documenting the music played on this format. The scope of the lists are somewhat broad covering artists and tracks that may not have been played on every station operating as AOR. Some stations focused more on hard rock while others embraced a much more laid back sound. Nonetheless I advocate that these include the wider spectrum of music played on all stations. If you are adding artists or songs to the lists, please do not make deletions without posting on the discussion page for comment.

As the lists grow, as some point it might be wise to move them to their own pages.

Forgotten artists of AOR[edit]

I would dispute Head East's inclusion on this list, or at least add a qualifier. While it's true you can't find their original albums and songs anywhere, I still hear "Never Been Any Reason" quite often on classic rock stations and it appears on an awful lot of '70s compilations. SpanishCastleMagic 22:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely agreed. Billy Thorpe's "Children of the Sun" is quite common on rock radio, too. He's not really a forgotten AOR artist. The forgotten artists page should've never been removed & its information was very useful to me. Believe me, more people than you know would be totally interested in this info. So I wish you'd reconsider & bring it back. You omitted several forgotten AOR artists. Nothing on Philly hard rock group Tangier, who had a rock/pop crossover hit with "On the Line" in 1989. Southern rock group Mistress, who had radio hits such as "Mistrusted Love" (Top 50-Pop) & "China Lake" in 1979, was also overlooked. Last, there's Chuck Francour, who had a minor radio hit with "Under the Boulevard Lights" in 1980. Rockonster01 (talk) 04:55, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

A Different Way to Approach the LISTS[edit]

It is difficult to come to a consensus about the lists because of the impact new artists began having on AOR in 1983. Prior to this time, AOR was able to keep itself neatly defined by a single group of traditional rock artists, with The Cars and The Police being the only next-generation artists to be acknowledged across the board. AOR’s comfort zone started unraveling in 1983 when U2 and Duran Duran broke the dam that let loose all the next-generation artists producing new sounds that did not fit into the AOR formula. With KROQ and MTV taking the lead, many AOR stations splintered from the traditional format and began focusing more on playing specific songs that concurrently were hits on CHR stations. Program directors across the USA had to grapple with whether to stick to that core base or start adding these new, untested bands. Yet even program directors who resisted these new trends consistently acknowledged that the bands to watch were U2 and R.E.M., who lived up to those expectations by becoming huge.

I have come up with a group of lists that – from my experience – are representative of AOR station formats prior to 1983. Even with this boundary there is likely to be some disagreement, but I’ll throw these out here for consideration.


POWER CORE - Artists who collectively defined most AOR stations: Aerosmith, Bad Company, Billy Squier, Bob Seger, Boston, Bruce Springsteen, Cream,Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Def Leppard, The Doors, The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner, Heart, Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, Journey, Judas Priest, Ted Nugent, Ozzy Osbourne, Pat Benatar, Peter Frampton, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Loverboy, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Stevie Nicks, Tom Petty, REO Speedwagon, Rolling Stones, Rush, Steely Dan, Styx, Van Halen, The Who, Yes.

AOR MAINSTREAM - Artists who had at least two songs, not necessarily hits, in frequent rotation: .38 Special, AC/DC, The Alan Parsons Project, The Allman Brothers Band, Asia, The Band, Black Sabbath, Blue Öyster Cult, Bob Dylan, Cheap Trick, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, David Bowie, Deep Purple, Derek and the Dominos, Dio, The Faces, Foghat, Grand Funk Railroad, James Gang, Jethro Tull, Kansas, Nazareth, Neil Young, Pete Townshend, Peter Gabriel, Queen, Robert Plant, Robin Trower, Rod Stewart, Sammy Hagar, Santana, Thin Lizzy, Triumph, ZZ Top.

CROSSOVER ARTISTS - Established in Top 40 with songs sometimes considered viable for AOR: Bachman-Turner Overdrive, Bryan Adams, Eddie Money, Electric Light Orchestra, Elton John, George Harrison, The J. Geils Band, John Cougar Mellencamp, John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, The Doobie Brothers, Toto.

AOR HITMAKERS - Artists generally known more for a song or two rather than a body of work: Accept (Balls to the Wall), Aldo Nova (Fantasy), Billy Thorpe (Children of the Sun), George Thorogood (Bad to the Bone), Head East (Never Been Any Reason), Night Ranger (Don’t Tell Me You Love Me; Sister Christian), Rainbow (Stone Cold), Ratt (Round and Round), Red Rider (Lunatic Fringe), Survivor (Eye Of The Tiger).

SIGNATURE AOR SONGS - High rotation songs, usually six minutes long or more: Cocaine (Live version) – Eric Clapton, Dream On – Aerosmith, Free Bird – Lynyrd Skynrd, Money - Pink Floyd, Slow Ride (the long version) – Foghat, Stairway to Heaven – Led Zeppelin, Turn The Page (Live version) – Bob Seger, Won't Get Fooled Again – The Who.

OTHER ARTISTS INCLUDED IN SOME PRE-1983 AOR FORMATS - Some of these artists went on to be more prominent after 1982 in AOR, CHR, and other formats: Alice Cooper, Argent, Badfinger, Black Oak Arkansas, Blackfoot, Bon Jovi, Chicago, Dave Mason, Dire Straits, Don Henley, Donnie Iris, The Edgar Winter Group, Genesis, Grateful Dead, Iron Maiden, Jackson Browne, Joan Jett, Joe Walsh, The Kinks, Lou Reed, Manfred Mann's Earth Band, The Marshall Tucker Band, Meat Loaf, Molly Hatchet, Montrose, The Moody Blues, Mott the Hoople, Mountain, The Outlaws, Ozark Mountain Daredevils, Pat Travers, Quarterflash, Rick Derringer, Steve Miller Band, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Supertramp, The Sweet, T. Rex, Todd Rundgren, Traffic, Triumph, The Tubes, Twisted Sister, Uriah Heep, Van Morrison, Warren Zevon.

VINTAGE AOR ARTISTS - Artists with “rock” (vs. bubblegum) hits in the 1960s/early 70s: Buffalo Springfield, The Byrds, Cream, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Free, Golden Earring, The Guess Who, The Hollies, Iron Butterfly, Jefferson Airplane, Procol Harum, Steppenwolf, Strawberry Alarm Clock, Sugarloaf, War, The Yardbirds, The Zombies.

PRE-U2 BREAKTHROUGH ARTISTS - Next generation artists accepted in the AOR mainstream prior to U2: Blondie, The Cars, Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, The Police, The Pretenders.

Boonog (talk) 21:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)TheBoonog

AOR/Melodic Rock[edit]

I think that Melodic Rock and AOR should be separate articles. Both are talking about something completely different, despite the same name. Perhaps "AOR (disambiguation)" would be a better idea, with items linking to pages like the melodic rock genre and the AOR radio format?-RedBlade7 16:52, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the AOR "radio format" is very different than the Melodic Rock "music genre" and they should be separate entries. While the AOR radio format inspired, influenced and indeed played some "melodic rock" artists, the AOR format was much more divers in scope and embraced a broad array of artists and styles that would not ordinarily be included in the Melodic Rock genre. The acronym AOR is sometimes applied to Melodic Rock - but this usage generally refers to "Adult Oriented Rock", rather than the "Album Oriented Rock" radio format. DannyRay 07:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

As a reader, I was completely befuddled when melodic rock referred me to this page. I neither see the connection between melodic rock and AOR nor found any information on melodic rock on this page. Vimes2136 (talk) 02:40, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree[edit]

There are too many artist and song links here. Perhaps separate "list" articles? -RedBlade7 17:10, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't Stop Believing[edit]

I don't think Journey and "Don't Stop Believing" should be in the forgotten artists portion. As far as I can tell, Journey and that song get plenty of play on classic rock stations and have definitely not been forgotten. matt91486 00:26, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. I made the revision. DannyRay 23:20, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


Chicago was a big part ofr AOR Radio in the early 1970's true they later stuff was more commercial. But Chicago was first played by AOR stations quite a bit before they got played by Top 40 stations. Long vershions of 25 or 6 to 4 and Beginings were played by AOR statiuons.


When Chicago first came on the scene they were a blues/fusion band with a splash of pop and a heavy dose of politics.

Side four of the first Chicago album, Chicago Transit Authority, features a combination of rock/blues along with chants from the 1968 Democratic convention - THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING - and some of the most amazing guitar feedback from Terry Kath. Jimi Hendrix was a great admirer of guitarist Terry Kath. The Chicago of this time was most definitely right for the "progressive rock" format, which evolved into AOR.
My first rock concert was Chicago in 1972 and the band members had McGovern stickers all over their equipment. Social issues and political ideals were prominent in their music (check out "A Song for Richard and His Friends" from the Live at Carnegie Hall album). Then Kath died when he accidentally shot himself and the band changed changed so dramatically they should have changed their name.
Even though many original band members remained, how can you make any sense of "25 or 6 to 4" - a song about tripping in the wee hours of the morning - with "Stay the Night" or the other light pop fare the band became famous for? i saw Chicago again in the mid-80s and it was not in any way like the band I saw in 1972. The band I saw the second time was the quintessential CHR band.Boonog (talk) 05:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)theboonog

"Core" artist list?[edit]

There are over 180 artists listed there... isn't that a little bit large for a core??? 02:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

A lot of artsists for sure - but most all received consistent airplay during the hey day of AOR programing. I feel the list is valid DannyRay 06:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Racist Overtones[edit]

There are a lot of racist overtones in the main article, implying that after the formats tightened in the 70's (and most Motown was taken out of airplay on most AOR stations), black artists did not receive airplay; it also seems to tie the "disco sucks" movement in with this, while in fact Disco (which was pretty varicolored in its composition) would have been generally hated by AOR audiences; Additionally, unless there was a vast Black Rock underground in the mid-to-late 70's that I just don't know about, there wasn't any Black Artist Rock to play.Paganize (talk) 08:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a wide variety of more progressive black artists that did receive airplay on AOR stations in the early 70s. In this era artists like Stevie Wonder, War, Funkadelic and other album-focused artists were contenders for airply. As AOR shifted focus to rock (rawk) exclusivly and tightened playlists towards the late 70s and early 80s, these more progressive black artists were omitted from the format almost entirely. So the implied racism of AOR that you seemed to have picked up on is valid. This was quiet a controversy in the early 80s and features about AOR and MTV's programming practices, that left out black artists, ran in major publications such as Billboard and Rolling Stone.DannyRay (talk) 05:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Considering Jimi Hendrix - a black artist - was and is one of the most amazing and revered guitarists of all time, I can't see how AOR was racist.

AOR was all about hard rock. I totally agree funk needed a mainstream outlet, too, but AOR was not ready then. So unfortunately many incredible funk/hip-hop artists such as Parliament/Funkadelic, Grandmaster Flash, et al, were not promoted on that format any more than Lynyrd Skynyrd was played on soul stations. Now formats have evolved to be able to include both hard rock and funk - I hope. Boonog (talk) 06:03, 9 March 2008 (UTC)theboonog

Farm clean up[edit]

I agree with any effort to clean up or eliminate these lists which don't appear to serve any purpose other than inviting fancruft and POV. Even if the lists are pared down, some of them are pointless to begin with. For example, "Non-single album tracks"—playing album tracks as opposed to singles was the whole point of AOR. Plus, many songs played on AOR radio were indeed released as singles based on the airplay they were already getting as album tracks. Other than lead singles, any album track that got airplay could conceivably be added to this list. As for the "Longer versions" list, single edits were very common but generally weren't played on AOR radio so why mention them? Single edits would be more relevant to an article on Top 40 radio. "Multiple songs played as one"? A common practice (a necessity really) worth mentioning along with other practices such "twin spins" or "double plays" and segueing tracks but it hardly needs this many examples to illustrate the point. The "Core artists" is also way too expansive. The Clash, for example, did get airplay on AOR but they were on the fringe of the format, not the core. And many other artist listed only had a few tracks that got significant airplay. Lastly, the "Forgotten artists" were not forgotten, they simply are not part of the current Classic rock format. Today's classic rock format is not a mirror image of what AOR was in the 1970s and 1980s, and some artists don't fit in, for a number of reasons, with what programmers are trying to accomplish. If the article is going to attempt to show the range of music that was played on AOR, it needs relevant, verifiable sources instead of a list of everyone's favorite artists. Piriczki (talk) 15:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

37 SITES prove Melodic Rock/AOR is a genre with the AOR format broad[edit]

I keep adding information, adding sources, all of which are reversed for supposed lack of citations (citations which are visible in the reversed paragraphs if they read it).

In the past, several Wikipedia articles mentioned "AOR" and "Melodic Rock" as a genre under band/artist pages, all of which have been replaced with "hard rock" or something similar (Mark/Marcie Free's page still uses the terms)

So what I'll do now is create a large list of 37+ sources which use Melodic Rock and AOR in the context of a genre and prove that this is a genre. This exists. Artists use the terms themselves. Italian Wikipedia once had extremely detailed information going into subgenres like "pomp" etc, which for some reason was pulled as well. Why do you ignore the existence of a concept, when the proof is overwhelming and there have been arguments and reversed edits for at least 2 YEARS on this?

I hope this acts as the final proof for Wikipedia accepting this genre as legitimate. (talk) 03:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree here. The subject of this article is an American radio format, not a music genre. Any content about a music genre called "melodic rock" belongs in it's own article, if warranted, or a related music genre article such as rock music or hard rock. Piriczki (talk) 14:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Pirick, the "melodic rock" article and paragraphs within "AOR" regarding the genre and differences between the format and the genre have been repeatedly deleted and reversed over the past 2 years. I have spoken with Wikipedia staff in the official Freenode chat room and they were not giving me straight answers (I think I have the log if anyone needs it, we discussed other deleted articles written/expanded by me and others as well.) I cannot answer for the Italian article other than that there used to be several regarding the genre, more detailed than the English Wikipedia (I can't speak Italian so I don't know the details), but there was apparently another typical Wikipedia bulk deletion in favor of the AOR radio format currently in this article. In the English article, mention of the genre was initially put into a paragraph, which I and others expanded into a long gone article. Lack of representation (I was gone from Wikipedia by then) led to incorrect equating of the genre, the radio format, 1980s arena rock, and ignoring modern successor acts, due to lack of knowledge of the details. (You can read the full article on Deletionpedia: [37] Attempts to fix this problem, most recently a simple paragraph with full inline citations, have all been reversed. I do not expect the article to be rewritten, and have no interest in doing so, but at least a paragraph or two verifying the genre's existence has to exist. I recently attempted this, apparently the same IP as last night was used. (I've used "RedBlade7" as my usename here in the past). (talk) 19:27, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

KYYS Kansas City, MO 102.1 FM/99.7 FM 1974-1997, 1997-2009 No Longer A Classic Rock or AOR Station[edit]

The KCMO-area station 99.7 changed to a format closer to the Adult Contemporary/Top 40 category in Spring 2009.

Mrsteveo (talk) 21:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Forgotten artists of AOR[edit]

I didn't have anything to do with the creation of this section, but I found it quite informative over 3 years ago (how time does fly!). Someone removed it. I understand it may be POV and problematic, but the deletionist who got rid of it seemed hell bent on not having it there, the other side of the sword. So I'm posting it here.

Forgotten artists of AOR[edit]

Because AOR was at one time a champion of new music, the format gave significant airplay to a wide range of artists who, for one reason or another, never crossed over to Classic Rock programming. Billboard Magazine did not start tracking AOR airplay until 1981, so the level of airplay and popularity some of these artists may have achieved, is a bit of a mystery. In some cases albums by these artists see CD release only on small boutique labels.

Sortable table?[edit]

How hard would it be to turn the "AOR radio stations" section list/table into a sortable table? That is, by clicking on each column header, it could be sorted up/down by that column's contents? Huw Powell (talk) 16:13, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

I added the sort function. Next the table needs to be trimmed of stations that are not or were not really AOR and have some consistency in the current format column so that it will sort properly. Piriczki (talk) 16:25, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Adult-oriented rock again? Really?[edit]

There is no question the term "adult-oriented rock" has been used in this context. The question is whether the term is absolutely synonymous or unconditionally interchangeable with the term "album-oriented rock." It is not. While album-oriented rock, alternatively known simply as "album rock," is specifically defined as a radio format and recognized as such by Arbitron, the term "adult-oriented rock" has variously been used to describe everything from adult contemporary artist Engelbert Humperdinck in the 1970s to different types of music genres, to the present day radio format known as adult album alternative (which I suspect is what you are actually describing). Probably the most relevant use of the term "adult-oriented rock" has been in describing those AOR stations that sought to retain its aging demographic as the format began to splinter in the 1980s. However, not all AOR stations were the same and that was just one "flavor" that some had but the term was not applicable to all AOR stations.

There can be mention of "adult-oriented rock" in the article, but it requires some explanation rather than simply jamming the phrase into an existing sentence where it might cause confusion and lead to further edits taking the article further off track. For instance, in the past one misguided editor attempted to change the entire article to "adult-oriented rock," which he defined as a soft rock music genre typified by groups such as Toto and Air Supply. Another wanted the subject of the article to be "melodic rock," a vaguely-defined sub-genre of hard rock typified by groups like Night Ranger or Great White.

The other addition to the lead, "AOR [a radio format] radio stations tend to play 'classic rock' [another radio format] as well as 'new rock' [whatever that is, or was, in 1998 when the cited source was written] to appeal to adult audiences," seems to be describing several different formats in the same breath, again conflagrating different terms in one confusing sentence. AOR long ago split into different spin-off formats making such a brief catch-all description impossible. This would be better addressed in the programming or spin-off formats sections of the article but again requires some explanation instead of just a simplistic, blanket statement.

Although loosely defined, "adult-oriented rock" has become part of the jargon and no doubt can be found in what are considered reliable sources, but its usage is not necessarily accurate or appropriate. Take the case of the supposed magazine College Music Journal, or CMJ. There are innumerable references to "College Music Journal" in otherwise reliable sources, some which specifically say CMJ stands for "college music journal" which is completely false (it was actually College Media Journal). Unfortunately, acronyms are sometimes misconstrued and their meaning deliberately or mistakenly altered over time but the fact is AOR, as defined in this article, is an acronym for the specific term "album-oriented rock" as originally coined by Mike Harrison in 1975 and trademarked by Radio & Records, widely-adopted by the industry and still recognized as the formal name of the format by Arbitron, although very few rock stations are still classified as AOR today, with most being identified as active rock, alternative, adult album alternative or classic rock, but not "adult-oriented rock." Piriczki (talk) 02:23, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

The only thing I've learned from your paragraph is that the reason "Adult-oriented rock" doesn't exist on Wikipedia is because you will erase all mentions of it. It makes absolutely no difference whether or not the term "adult-oriented rock" was widely used in the industry - it has been used in many reliable sources to describe this radio format.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 00:49, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

RfC: Acknowledging "adult-oriented rock"[edit]

There is no consensus to include this information. Cunard (talk) 04:54, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this information be included?

"Album-oriented rock" (or "album-oriented radio")[1] may be deployed interchangeably with "adult-oriented rock".[2] In 1978, KGOU manager Roy Lamberton identified "adult-oriented rock" as a mellower version of album-oriented rock.[3]

As of Jan 9, Adult-oriented rock redirects to Album-oriented rock even though "adult-oriented rock" doesn't appear in this article. The dispute over including these sentences comes from the fact that "adult-oriented rock" is a loosely defined term, sometimes also referring to Arena rock or Yacht rock, which are not radio formats. Some sources (cited above) say that the terms are regionally dependent, and that "album-oriented rock" was the format as it was known in the US. Other people claim (without sources) that "album-oriented rock" was the official name of the radio format described in this article, and that "adult-oriented rock" is a meaningless term that ought to denote Adult album alternative (this notion is also contradicted by music industry textbooks).[4][5] RfC relisted a second time. Cunard (talk) 03:28, 26 March 2017 (UTC) RfC relisted. Cunard (talk) 09:36, 12 February 2017 (UTC); originally initiated by --Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:24, 10 January 2017 (UTC)


  • Yes — A five-second Google search turns up Modern Radio Station Practices (1978),[6] which defines "AOR" as "Album Oriented Rock or Adult Oriented Rock. A type of station format frequently referred to in recent years as "mellow" rock. "[7] I cannot find a single source that challenges the validity of "adult-oriented rock" in this instance. Even if it wasn't officially recognized in the industry,[8] that doesn't mean it isn't used as a synonym of "album-oriented rock". It's a loose term, so it encompasses a lot of things. This is why we have hatnotes. A better one would clarify the matter: "This article is about the radio format. For the related rock subgenres sometimes called "adult-" or "album-oriented rock", see Arena rock and Yacht rock." If that's not enough, then we could also add ""Adult-oriented rock" redirects here. For the mellower spinoff of this radio format, see Adult album alternative"--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:24, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
  • No

For the KGOU reference, quoting the entire sentence would be helpful: "Also, its formerly progressive, album-oriented rock has mellowed to what he calls 'adult-oriented rock.'"

The subject of this article, the radio format called album-oriented rock, was so named by Mike Harrison who developed the format at KPRI in 1973. He went on to be a columnist for Radio & Records and later Billboard. Here is an excerpt from his cloumn "AOR Radio" from May 16, 1975:

"We've changed the name of this column to AOR Radio from FM Rock Radio because it is Album Oriented Rock Radio that I write about." link

The acronym for album-oriented rock "AOR" was even trademarked by Radio & Records. link

Here is another excerpt from a contemporary article on the subject of AOR.

"On the Air" Rock Around the World March 1977

"What we're hearing on our FMs these days is called "album-oriented rock" by people in the radio biz. It's an album-cut format that includes rock at its core and encompasses all rock-related forms of music."
"One of those guys was Mike Harrison, who left day-to-day radio to write about progressive's second generation. He coined the term "album-oriented rock" and became the leading spokesman for its ideas."
"The people with the radio bucks likewise came to realize that many things and ideas considered avant or revolutionary during the Sixties were quite above-ground in the Seventies. They viewed AOR as a term much more acceptable than "free-form acid rock" and other Sixties descriptions." link

Another example of the industry recognized name from Billboard: "Arbitron Figures Raise Question: Will Disco Continue To Flourish?" Billboard September 29, 1979

"Among music formats, progressive is the second fastest growing with a 58% growth rate. This is followed by that FM phenomenon called album-oriented rock, known as AOR for short." link

Notice also on that page that Arbitron uses the term AOR in their ratings and still uses the term "album-oriented rock." Here are a few recent examples here, here, and here

Now, can one google "adult oriented rock" and find results? Sure. Just as one can google other misnomers such "King Biscuit Flour Hour" or "College Music Journal" and find results.

Also, this is not an issue of etymology where the origin or meaning is unclear. This is a specific subject with a specific name. Subsequent casual, mistaken or altered use involving other terms doesn't change that. I'm just grateful the album-oriented rock station I listened to didn't think AOR meant "adult oriented rock" and start playing Engelbert Humperdinck instead of Led Zeppelin. Same three letters, way different thing. Piriczki (talk) 16:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

(invited by the bot) I'd say no, for a more basic reason. As is clear above, genre names (and these in particular) have variable meanings. Trying to say in the voice of Wikipedia that the two terms are categorically synonyms is an overstatement.North8000 (talk) 14:02, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Threaded discussion[edit]

  • Update — I made Adult-oriented rock a disambig page to cover every style/format the term may be referring to.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
  • Reply to "this is not an issue of etymology where the origin or meaning is unclear. This is a specific subject with a specific name." — That reasoning applies to "album-oriented", but not "adult-oriented", which does have unclear meaning. If "adult-oriented" is often used for "album-oriented", the principle of least astonishment holds that the fact should be acknowledged here in some capacity.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 01:25, 13 January 2017 (UTC)



The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.