Talk:Alexander Hamilton

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Good article Alexander Hamilton has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Alexander Hamilton:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:
  • Cleanup : Rework the section on Hamilton & Slavery to focus on Hamilton's actual involvement with slavery as opposed to an obscure academic debate about his portrayal by biographers. Unfortunately the entire article is locked from editing and nobody seems to be improving it at the moment.
  • Expand : Hamilton and the Battle of Princeton; Hamilton's private negotiations with George Beckwith, the British agent; Hamilton and the speculators, including the bailout of William Duer; Hamilton's attacks on Philip Freneau, and the misquotation.
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Recent edits about Hamilton & slavery[edit]

Re: Here and here: It's probably been discussed before but let's try to reach some kind of editorial consensus about whether or not Hamilton owned, bought & sold people as property. Many historians state that he did own slaves, some say he didn't. Let's discuss. Shearonink (talk) 06:53, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

I am unable to quote the sources right now, but as far as I am aware Hamilton was involved in slaves trade on other people's behalf (when he was working as an accountant clerk for a living or when he acted as intermediary for his father and brother in law) and borrowed slave help from his in-laws on a few occasions when he had to host dinner parties and his household staff was not large enough to sustain the task (in some cases he hired an additional paid cook too) otherwise I do not recall recorded contemporary documental evidence that he actually owned slaves. Isananni (talk) 07:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Latest addition on historian Joanne Freeman's opinions and possible WP:PROMOTION[edit]

I reviewed the latest edit by user Minard38 on Ms Freeman's opinion on Alexander Hamilton in the Legacy section - the edit has a referral link to Ms Freeman's page, a page that was created by the same user on the very same day of his/her edit on the Alexander Hamilton's page, where Ms Freeman is praised as one of the leading experts on Hamilton (too bad she seems to have only published one work in what are claimed to be over 40 years of research on this specific Founding Father out of her 55 years of actual life, an early high school bird apparently) and clearly promotes Ms Freeman's upcoming book on Hamilton, due for release next month May 2017. The previous edit with Ms Freeman's supposed opinion on Hamilton on the Alexander Hamilton page was not even correctly referenced and simply further pointed to Ms Freeman's page on the Yale University website.

I have now replaced it with a statement derived from an online article by Ms Freeman and the reference now at least points to said article (it had been previously added to the Hamilton Musical page, where it is still visible in the "historical inaccuracies" section). I honestly have some doubts on whether this whole edit is 1) correctly positioned since it does not seem to add anything to the Legacy section in terms of detailing Hamilton's achievements whose effects are felt to this day 2) correctly left on the Alexander Hamilton page: apart from sounding like blatant WP:PROMOTION, if we start referencing each and every historian's opinion on Hamilton instead of the facts we might as well start a separate page with all historians' opinions on Hamilton, it might result longer than the Alexander Hamilton page itself, but would at least be transparently biased instead of delivering single historian's opinions as facts. All things considered, my personal opinion is that the latest edits concerning Ms Freeman's opinion on Hamilton (referenced or unreferenced) do not add an iota to sharing knowledge on documented facts and achievements related to Alexander Hamilton and should be removed from the page, not just the Legacy section. The suspect of WP:PROMOTION does not add a positive perception of the quality of the related edits. I would welcome other editors' opinion. Isananni (talk) 15:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

  • I would not object to the deletion. If not outright WP:PROMOTION, there's certainly a great deal of WP:PUFFERY around Joanne B. Freeman and the notability of her work. For example, I reverted this edit to Hamilton Grange National Memorial that was outright unsupported by the cited source. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 18:09, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
    • "Hamilton authority" again... Ms Freeman seems to have quite a fan in that editor... considering that Ms Freeman publicly stated that she thought Hamilton was an asshole (her precise words, see the 2007 PBS Documentary on Alexander Hamilton for reference) I would like to think that an authority in any field would be a bit less crass in stating their opinion and possibly elaborate their thoughts to argue their point a bit more. Isananni (talk) 18:23, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
  • I'm astonished at the hostility directed at efforts to expand the number of pages on Wikipedia about respected historians, particularly women. It is discouraging to see such Gender bias on Wikipedia in action. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minard38 (talkcontribs) 07:15, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Be polite, and welcoming to new users, assume good faith, avoid personal attacks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minard38 (talkcontribs) 07:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
    • There's no Gender bias in action Minard38, but WP:PROMOTION is forbidden. Other edits related to other historians regardless of gender on countless Wiki pages have been equally revised/deleted based on irrelevance/inadequacy of the edit as is, in the best case, the issue in this instance. It is a fact that a single historian's opinion on a historical figure does not equal consensus and should be removed according to Wiki neutrality policy regardless if said historian calls e.g. Hamilton "a mass of contradictions" as in the rmv edit or "an arrogant asshole" as Ms Freeman did in the 2007 PBS documentary on Alexander Hamilton (you can find the dvd on sale for your reference). Also, please remember to sign your edits on talk pages. Isananni (talk) 07:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Agreed. The goal is to expand neutral discussion and knowledge about Hamilton, not limit it. I am not promoting Freeman however she has done a major amount of research and was already cited as a reference on the Alexander Hamilton page before. She is credited by Chernow and Lin Manuel Miranda as a source and did in fact act as a consultant for the Grange. I don't believe the use of expletives negates a person's credentials as a historian or authority on Hamilton (and she has done significant work on other early American history as well). As for crass, some may look askance at Lin Manuel-Miranda's historical use of language (see for ref.stealingyourpixels. "Hamilton Musical: Why did Lin remove so many swear words between the Off-Broadway and Broadway versions of the show?". reddit. Retrieved April 11, 2017.  and "DRUNK HISTORY: LIN-MANUEL MIRANDA'S MOTHERF***** COUNT}". Drunk History. Retrieved April 11, 2017.  ) but then again I have not used any foul language in my postings, edits or citations. Not sure what happened to my tildes on the last two posts but I will try to be mindful of that. Also your Isananni user name shows up red - you may want to create a user page to fix that. Another helpful editor told me that red links look suspicious.contribs) 08:15, 11 April 2017
No objection on previous references to Ms Freeman's work has been made, so you were perfectly aware that no gender bias was in action when you posted your earlier comment. good faith should also apply to my and other editors' edits. I certainly have no interest in favoring one historian or another, so much so that my edits were previously aimed at at least providing a referenced statement by Ms Freeman instead of her Yale University page with no connection at all with the previous statement. Historians' argued opinions are mentioned when a) they are relevant to discussing different views on documented facts related to the specific section where generally all sides should be represented (see e.g. The different opinions on Hamilton's date of birth) b) they are unequivocally referenced. The latest edits on Freeman's personal opinion on Hamilton did not seem to be adequate under this light, regardless of her gender and even granting you good faith on the WP:PROMOTION issue. I think I can safely say Lin-Manuel Mieanda is not generally acknowledged as a scholar or leading expert on the historical Alexander Hamilton, nor is his show however awesome as far as artworks are concerned, and I personally find it sad that someone who is instead referenced as a scholar shoukd stoop so low as to use crass lamguage on television (years before the musical btw), but personal opinions are not an adequate content on a page dedicated to a historical figure regardless of propriety of terms.

I do not feel so important as to have a personal page, anyone can check my contributions as related to my username. If some kind admin saw fit to upgrade me to autoconfirmed user I feel so bald as to say I have done something good. I of course am not infallible and have had edits removed/revised in my life. Once the reasons were discussed and I found myself in a minority I accepted the revision. Have a nice day. Isananni (talk) 09:21, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2017[edit]

Plz change the title so it says "NOT WIKIPEDIA" so i can use it for a a school project. thanks 198.97.62.94 (talk) 16:44, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Hmmmm....No. Btw, it's not really a good idea to attempt to use an encyclopedia to try to cheat on an assignment.... Shearonink (talk) 17:05, 16 May 2017 (UTC)