Talk:Algae fuel

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WikiProject Algae (Rated B-class, High-importance)
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Economic Viability section needs to be reworked.[edit]

This section needs to be shortened, a lot of it reads like a college students report on the topic. The subsections themselves are more like advertisements for the two companies outlined. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.210.88 (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

What does this mean? This is unclear.[edit]

Under the "other" section, there is this strange note. I do not understand what the author intended, and so I'm not certain how to correct it. Can somebody please clarify/simplify? Thank you! 192.33.240.95 (talk) 14:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC) "Section three of the 2006 alternative fuels act stated that when it is economically feasible to do so-75% per cent of all federal bodies and crown corporation will be motor vehicles."

potential resource[edit]

"5 Companies Making Fuel From Algae Now; Algae is now a burgeoning sector in biofuels with several high-profile start-ups. Here are 5 project leading the pack today." by Jeremy Jacquot Popular Mechanics

97.87.29.188 (talk) 23:07, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

No explanation on how the "crude" oil is extracted from the algae in the first place[edit]

I think this needs to be added in. ScienceApe (talk) 21:23, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Misrepresentation of the ASP[edit]

There was a reference under the Biodiesel to how only "small-scale" biodiesel production could supply enough fuel to replace world diesel consumption; I read over the ASP final report cited there (it is a big document, but I've read it before) and found no such suggestion anywhere...fixed it.---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by FarmerOnMars (talkcontribs) 23:18, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Info[edit]

Added this: Proviron has been working on a new type of reactor (using flat plates) which reduces the cost of algae cultivation. At AlgaePARC similar research is being conducted using 4 grow systems (1 open pond system and types of 3 closed systems). According to René Wijffels the current systems do not yet allow algae fuel to be produced competitively. However using new (closed) systems, and by scaling up the production it would be possible to reduce costs by 10X, upto a price of 0,4 € per kg of algae. [1]

perhaps some more references are useful — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.170.224 (talk) 08:24, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

COI Contributions[edit]

I have a financial COI with Honeywell in that they’ve recruited me to help them navigate through Wikipedia and COI Best Practices. I would like to suggest the following contributions in order to better inform Wikipedia's readers on green diesel or hydrogen-derived renewable diesel. User:King4057 (EthicalWiki) 16:20, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Green Diesel[edit]


I would like to improve the section called "Hydrocracking to traditional transport fuels" as follows:

Algae is used to create Green diesel through a hydrocracking refinery process that breaks molecules down into shorter hydrocarbon chains used in diesel engines.[2][3] Green Diesel may also be called renewable diesel, hydro-treated vegetable oil[3] or hydrogen-derived renewable diesel (HDRD).[4] "Algae oil" has the same chemical properties as petroleum-based diesel.[3] It does not require new engines, pipelines or infrastructure to distribute and use, but has not been produced at a cost that is competitive with petroleum.[4]

I also suggest we rename it "Green Diesel" (the consumer name) or Hydrogren-Derived Renewable Diesel (the scientific title) and add it to the list of algae-based fuel types mentioned in the second paragraph "bioethanol, biogasoline, biomethanol, green diesel..."

References[edit]

  1. ^ EOS magazine, 6, 2012
  2. ^ Brown, Robert; Jennifer Holmgren. "Fast Pyrolysis and Bio-Oil Upgrading" (PDF). Retrieved March 15, 2012. 
  3. ^ a b c Knothe, Gerhard (2010), Biodiesel and renewable diesel: A comparison, Progress in Energy and Combustion Science 
  4. ^ a b "Alternative & Advanced Fuels". US Department of Energy. Retrieved March 7, 2012. 

Comments[edit]

I'm not seeing what the relevance of this is to algae fuel - the references discuss producing diesel from vegetable oils, not algae. SmartSE (talk) 16:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

It's to replace the section "Hydrocracking to traditional transport fuels," which links to the same Green Diesel article (vegetable oil refining), so the topic is already there. But do you think we should remove it? It's there as an example of one of the types of fuels produced with algae. User:Corporate Minion 16:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
Since the proposed text is well referenced and seems unbiased, I approve King to make the edits:
While King's text is an improvement on the existing text, I will leave it to others to discuss whether the topic is appropriate for this article. 1292simon (talk) 08:24, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm going to wait a little while before implementing, since Smart had an objection and see if anyone else objects or if it's something he feels strongly about and would like more opinions on. User:Corporate Minion 13:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay again. I get why it could potentially be included, but I would prefer to see some references that are specifically discussing the use of algae to produce 'green diesel' rather than the same ones used in biofuel. IMO this article shouldn't really be focusing on the various ways of transforming biomass into fuel, but specifically about the differences with using algae as the feedstock. I know the article is a mess at the moment, but I don't think that adding this content would really improve it. SmartSE (talk) 15:53, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Aww, I'll see if I can find some algae-specific info RE Green Diesel. User:Corporate Minion 17:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
A beaker of "Green Jet Fuel" made from algae.

I'm giving it a second go and requesting feedback on adding the image (see right) Honeywell donated under the Jet Fuel section as well as adding the below Green Diesel summary (below). I took another look and it was a bit awkward doing a copy/paste from the other page, so I just re-worded it a bit so it made more sense. Corporate Minion 22:54, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

  • I think the image is uncontroversial enough; have added it (with a slight tweak to the caption - that looks like a conical flask, not a beaker). I'm well-disposed to the diesel section but would like to see what other folk think... bobrayner (talk) 21:06, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
    • I've gone ahead and added a modified version of the content above. I'm still not entirely happy with the references, but it is an improvement on the current version so will do for now. I've also moved the photo to the top since it is the only one in the article and I think readers like to see photos. SmartSE (talk) 21:36, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
I actually came by just to read the article and there's a big problem in third sentence where it looks like some information got dropped that stopped me dead in my tracks. So while people are fixing it up, feel free to fix that and I'll come back and try again in a few days. Thanks. CarolMooreDC 15:44, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Algae fuel in fiction[edit]

Although there are not many examples of algae fuels in fiction; Metal Gear 2:Solid Snake deals extensively and in a serious tone with the political ramifications of such technology. Other science subjects like wormholes have brief in fiction sections. I think it's worth noting pop culture seems to overwhelmingly propose that anyone who invents an oil substitute will just disappear into the shadowy world of tactical military espionage; which is rather discouraging. CensoredScribe (talk) 14:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources discussing this? - SummerPhD (talk) 15:08, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to chime in at the talk page for Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games on whether or not video games them selves and not just their instruction manuals should be considered suitable references. Trying to apply an academic referencing system made over a hundred years ago to a new medium which looks nothing like the pages of a book is kind of ridiculously outdated. CensoredScribe (talk) 19:31, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Whether or not you like how we might cite such material, we still need reliable sources. That said, depending on what you have in mind, you might be creating an "In popular culture" section. If such material merely lists occurrences and/or cites primary sources (e.g., the games themselves), the section is likely to be removed as a trivial list. You might want to review WP:IPC before you spend much time on this. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:57, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Commercial viability claims[edit]

Is there any evidence that the small-scale "commercial sales" cited have not been expensive loss-leaders for the companies involved to keep the research grants and venture capital coming? EllenCT (talk) 03:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Is there evidence they have been? - SummerPhD (talk) 04:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Yes. None of the large projects were able to attain anything under $100 per gallon of fuel. Even "producing microalgal biomass is $2.95/kg for photobioreactors and $3.80/kg for open-ponds. These estimates assume that carbon dioxide is available at no cost" means about $400 per barrel of unrefined oil. The idea that a startup can sell a small quantity at "competitive prices" as a loss-leader is marketing propaganda drivel that has no place in an encyclopedia article. EllenCT (talk) 20:29, 11 September 2014 (UTC)