Talk:Algerian War

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Casus belli[edit]

How can "FLN terrorism in French Algeria" be a cause for the 'Algerian War of Independence'? If anything it would a tactic within that war. Surely the cause is the French colonial rule.

Harkis[edit]

The numbers in the new harki section seem highly controversial:

"The term also came to include non-fighting Muslim Algerian who supported a French Algeria, as well as their families." - when? I've never seen it used that way, nor does harkis.com seem to use it that way.
"According to the United Nations, in 1962 there were 476,000 Algerian Muslim fighting for the French army, and 50,000 non-fighting Muslim overtly supporting a French Algeria (mostly Arab and Kabyle rich elite)." - can you point out an exact source? This contradicts even the harkis' own website, which gives 263 000 [1] - and ignores the fact that many harkis switched sides to the FLN before the end of the war.
"Including their families, they numbered at least 1 million, or about 10% of the total Algerian population." At most would be more accurate - can you cite any neutral sources for this figure?

- Mustafaa 18:37, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

photo of first press conference...[edit]

Can someone remove this photo? It has nothing to do with the Algerian war but represents nowadays Corsican independentists, FLNC meaning "front de liberation nationale de la Corse"

The starting date of this event is incorrect.[edit]

". The most notable manifestation of the new urban campaign was the Battle of Algiers, which began on September 30, 1956, when three women placed bombs at three sites including the downtown office of Air France."

Dear friends,

The events that generally constitute the Battle happened in 1957, not 1956. Although the date above for the bombings is apparently correct, (The quote seems to be from the LOC country study on Algeria.) The Battle for Algiers began On January 28, 1957 following the national strike.

Specifica dates of interest:

28 January: General strike begins in Algiers which is broken by the paras. 5 March: Larbi Ben M'hidi, FLN leader captured on 25 February, dies in custody. 21 May: Fall of the Mollet government. 29 May: An FLN commando unit massacres all the men in the village of Melouza who belong to the rival MNA. 12 September: Resignation of Paul Teitgen, secretary general for the police in Algiers, who protests at the torture methods used by the paras. 24 September: Head of the Algiers FLN, Yacef Saadi, is arrested in the Casbah.

The Battle of Algiers ends.

French Troops Clash With Algerian Civilians[edit]

This picture should be removed. It's a scene from Gillo Pontecorvo's "Battle of Algiers", not a real photo. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22838-2003Sep3.html

Harkis[edit]

The lede section of the article includes a passage listing an estimate of 50,000 - 150,000 harkis (Muslims who served as auxiliaries with the French Army) as being killed in reprisals immediately following Algerian independence in 1962. This has just been tagged as "dubious - discuss". While harkis and their families were undoubtedly killed in large numbers, there seems to be no way of fixing an accurate total in the absence of cooperation from the modern Algerian authorities. The high (150,000) figure appears to have been derived from an extrapolation, by contemporary French researchers, over all of Algeria of confirmed deaths in specific areas. The subject of the harkis remains a sensitive one in both Algeria and France - despised collaborators or abandoned loyalists? However they should not be written out of history. Buistr (talk) 23:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

References[edit]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Algerian War. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:54, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

December 2017[edit]

@Fustos: your edits have been reverted because:

  • 1) Contrary to what you claimed, the cited sources are not the same (the author of the first is a co-author of the second). 2) The second one was added to prevent you from cherry picking a term (signaled) from the first. 3) Both sources mention the end of an empire that stretches from Dunkerque to Tlemcen (with the second specifically stating that the empire "received its decisive death blow" after the end of the war).
  • You have intentionally removed sourced content ("first three decades of the conquest") from the article (not once, but twice). M.Bitton (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
the problem with the wording is it makes it seem the war was the reason for the empire collapsed, while it was just part of it. Fustos (talk) 20:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
No, it doesn't. Have you actually read what I wrote ? Why do you keep introducing the same cherry picked term ? Why are you ignoring what the other sources state ? M.Bitton (talk) 20:36, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
the term you use make it sound like the colonial empire fell because of the algerian war only. when in fact it was due to a myriad of reason ranging back from WW2 to indochina to algeria. etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fustos (talkcontribs) 20:41, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
What part of what I wrote don't you understand ? M.Bitton (talk) 20:52, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
i understand what you wrote. the problem is it's misleading. that's why it has to be corrected. Fustos (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
No, you clearly don't want to understand what cherry picking means. Time to get an admin involved. M.Bitton (talk) 21:10, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
how ironic. by the same token you're cherry picking as well. Fustos (talk) 21:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Writing "The death knell of the empire was sounded" or "the empire received its decisive death blow" (under the pretext that both are attributed to to RS) would be cherry picking. Simply stating that it ended (a statement that was there long before you changed it and a fact that is supported by sources) is not. M.Bitton (talk) 22:00, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Searchtool-80%.png Response to third opinion request (how to present the end of the French colonial empire in the Infobox from a neutral point of view?):
"End of the French colonial empire" is better, for 2 reasons: (a) like the last straw, the last in a series of events always gets the credit because the major consequence would not have occurred without it, and (b) it was more than a signal, much more the "decisive death blow", but that is too verbose for an infobox and a tad puffy too. Batternut (talk) 00:42, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
@Fustos: As the editor who suggested a WP:3O, please acknowledge the respondent's comment. M.Bitton (talk) 21:40, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
i acknowledge it. but was honestly hoping for more than one opinion. Fustos (talk) 00:05, 12 December 2017 (UTC)