Talk:Alien vs. Predator (film)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Featured article Alien vs. Predator (film) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on July 23, 2009.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
January 27, 2008 Peer review Reviewed
January 24, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
February 7, 2008 Featured article candidate Promoted
Current status: Featured article

Production countries[edit]

I've updated the production countries. The country status written in quote on the page is not up to date with the current standards of the infobox film template. Both the British Film Institute and Variety have listed extra production countries. (http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/784433) and (http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117924613/). If you go into the "Credits" section on the BFI article, it goes into detail about which countries helped with production how (for example, Babelsberg pictures here: (http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/organisation/145610) which is listed as a co-production here. I think that should be enough. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:08, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

The source cited doesn't jibe with the instructions at Template:Infobox film, which say:
"Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article. The nationality of the film should be backed up with a reliable source. The source must clearly identify the nationality in a descriptive capacity, as in describing it as an American or a French film/movie etc, or in a contextual capacity such as the BFI's list of top 100 "British films" or as an example in a published work on German film etc. Sources that simply identify the country of origin as France, or the production country as U.S. etc such as is the case with resources like Allmovie and IMDb is not sufficient identification of the film's nationality. If there is a conflict between nationalities, then the nationality should not be stated and the country field should not be filled in."
The lead identifies this as an American film. The site referenced merely lists production countries, it does not "identify the nationality in a descriptive or contextual capacity". A list of 5 countries is too long and will only serve to confuse readers ("What about this film is Czech or German?"). Both of the primary production studios (Davis & Brandywine) as well as the distributor (20th Century Fox) are American companies. Since it was filmed primarily in the Czech Republic, one expects to see some mention of a Czech company in very detailed production credits, but this doesn't make it a "Czech film". If so many countries are potentially to be listed, we should simply leave the field out of the infobox (and the nationality out of the lead sentence) in order to simplify things for readers. Since nationality isn't an intrinsic characteristic of this film, it really doesn't bear mentioning in such a prominent place. --IllaZilla (talk) 00:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
It does if you delve further where it actually tells you what companies aided with production. For example, it lists Lonkink as a production company for the film here and lists it country here. These countries are important as they show the evolution of how Paul W.S. Anderson worked with these countries. His most recent Resident Evil film was only a Canadian-Germany production for example. Just because it's confusing for a user, doesn't mean you don't list it. As there is conflict, I think it should either list all of these, or none at all. I stand by my statements that it does suggest more to put them all in.Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Like I said, if so many are potentially to be listed then it would be be easier on readers to simply leave the field out altogether. Otherwise we must harmonize the lead with the infobox by saying "Alien vs. Predator (also known as AVP) is a 2004 American-British-Czech-Canadian-German science fiction film..." which will just confuse the hell out of readers. Since the film in and of itself has no strong national ties (as do, say, Australia or The Patriot), there is no real need to assign it any national identities. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
I agree with IllaZilla. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 05:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
If there's so many in the infobox, than don't bother with it in the lead. I don't know why we'd have to re-post it twice as we don't re-post the film length's twice either. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:06, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
"Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article." — This suggests that there should be harmony between the lead and the infobox with respect to nationality. The first sentence identifies it as an American film, yet the infobox presents it as a multinational production involving 5 different countries (and if the film country templates are used, the categories at the bottom of the page identify it as a British film, a Czech film, a Canadian film, and a German film). This is a contradiction that will likely confuse readers (to call it American in the lead and call it by 4 other nationalities elsewhere in the article). --IllaZilla (talk) 16:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes but you aren't supposed to have citations in the lead either. This contradicts many of wikipedia's rules. I'm a bit flustered with it here and I'm thinking the talk page of the infobox article is a better place to discuss it. Feel free to revert it to nothing or leave it as American here for now. I'll take this up elsewhere. Cheers! Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

As per new infobox standards we are to list all the countries in the production now. Please do not revert this edit or change the countries without discussing it first. It now going by wikipedia standard and changing it will be considered vandalism. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:19, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

That is outrageous. Vandalism depends on the intention of a person making an edit. Even if the change itself is not helpful, an edit is not vandalism so long as the person making it doesn't intend to be unconstructive. Polisher of Cobwebs (talk) 01:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Even though it's new, and you are going against the policy of what should be there for person reasons then it is considered vandalism. I'm not going to call you on it, but people just reverting it proclaiming that there's still discussion going on about it (there isn't) or wait for standards to change (they have changed) is a little more than frustrating. Unless you have reasons to find my citation false or against the statement on infobox film, please don't revert it anymore. Cheers. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:47, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
FWIW, infobox documentation is hardly policy. Far from it, in fact. I stand by my prior comment that if so many are potentially to be listed then it would be be easier on readers to simply leave the field out altogether. --IllaZilla (talk) 03:13, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
It is the standard however and what most people will revert it too. Just because it's not repeated in MOS:FILM, it should be followed. Your first complaint was that it wasn't following the rules of the infobox, but now that it's changed, you say it's not worth following? At least stick with your argument. Andrzejbanas (talk) 10:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Because I more or less agreed with the "rule" before it was changed. I'm not so jazzed about it if it means we have to list 5 countries and categorize this as a "Czech film", "German film", etc. when there's nothing at all Czech or German about it. Besides, it's still not entirely following the "rule", which starts off "Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article": I see you took it upon yourself to remove mention of nationality from the lead, despite insisting on listing 5 nationalities in the infobox. If you're that attached to this "rule" then you'd have to say "Alien vs. Predator (also known as AVP) is a 2004 American-British-Czech-Canadian-German science fiction film...". You can't claim something is a standard or rule if you're only choosing to follow the parts of it you like. --IllaZilla (talk) 14:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
"there's nothing at all Czech or German about it". That's a pretty bold statement because there is actually production companies involved with this film. Missing a production company is an important as missing a screenwriter or director. If you want to fill in the lead with a production country go right ahead, I'm not sure what to place there now because we have so many countries involved. I just know flat-out "American" isn't appropriate anymore. I'd be happy to help find a solution to that problem, but I also don't want incorrect information to be posted there either. Perhaps MOS:FILM will need to be changed as well for this situation. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
What I mean is, to anyone watching the film, there's no Czeck-ness or German-ness about it: No Cezch or German actors or characters, not set in either of those countries, not written or directed by Czechs or Germans, etc. The only connection to Germany is that some money came in from a company based there. It was filmed in the Czech Republic, so obviously a Czech company had some involvement, but that's a tangential connection at best. Something you'd expect to see in a finely-detailed list of every country involved in financing and producing the film in any way, but not something you'd expect to see in a synopsis of key details. --IllaZilla (talk) 22:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't need stereotypes of German films or whatnot to be considered a production of that country. It was co-produced by Babelsberg Studios, a German Studio who worked on the film. You can read here to see how this studio has helped several Hollywood productions, not just AvsP. Andrzejbanas (talk) 11:19, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Predator 2 comparison[edit]

It's WP:SYN to take an IMDB FAQ for Predator 2 about "the significance of the antique pistol" and comment on a perceived similarity to this film. The IMDB FAQ says it "was created directly by users and has not been screened or verified by IMDb staff" so isn't a reliable source in any case, but it simply isn't saying anything about Alien vs. Predator. --McGeddon (talk) 20:02, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

I see what you are saying. But some other editor has just said that I do not have to provide any reference to Alien vs Predator, when talking about it on the Alien vs Predator page, because Wikipedia permits that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.43.227.18 (talk) 20:05, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
The last couple of paragraphs of MOS:PLOT are clear on this. We can use the work itself as a source for what happens, but we can't use the work itself for pointing out callbacks to other films because that's not part of the work, it's a one-level-up interpretation of the work. That kind of thing can be fine and useful content (like the Cornetto in Hot Fuzz, which is amply sourced to director interviews), but it belongs outside of the plot summary. The plot section is just for delivering the plot to the reader as a standalone capsule summary. --McGeddon (talk) 20:32, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Note for this talk page: I am the other editor the IP is talking about, and I stated, "See MOS:PLOT; sources are not typically required. When they are, they should be reliable. Yours are not. Stop WP:Edit warring." Flyer22 (talk) 20:48, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Alien vs. Predator (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

YesY An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 05:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Alien vs. Predator (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:30, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Alien vs. Predator (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:18, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Alien vs. Predator (film). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

You may set the |checked=, on this template, to true or failed to let other editors know you reviewed the change. If you find any errors, please use the tools below to fix them or call an editor by setting |needhelp= to your help request.

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

If you are unable to use these tools, you may set |needhelp=<your help request> on this template to request help from an experienced user. Please include details about your problem, to help other editors.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:15, 19 May 2017 (UTC)