Talk:American Airlines Flight 587

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In culture / dramatization[edit]

I added a section to add material references to this incident in culture, and a cited description of a TV episode that devotes significant time to discussing this incident. That was deleted. The same user has been deleting already existing references to TV episodes or cultural references to other pages. I already started a talk page discussion for this on Talk:British Airways Flight 38. Please discuss there. Thanks. Shelbystripes (talk) 17:45, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Also, if a "refimprove section" tag is present, the correct response is to add references to the parts of the section needing them, not to delete the whole section. Thanks. Shelbystripes (talk) 18:27, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Why on earth are the dogs mentioned in the beginning?[edit]

"All 260 people aboard the plane (251 passengers and nine crew members) died, plus one dog carried in the cargo hold;[2] five bystanders and one other dog on the ground were killed as well" What's up with that? Moshe Schorr (talk) 01:02, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

That documented information is part of the record of the accident, and Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 09:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)


Hi all. I've made some changes to this page, but User:Spintendo keeps reverting them. In my opinion, too much of certain sections are just seem like they are hard copied-and-pasted from the NTSB report etc. Take a look at the version as of 10:32 on 22 Jan 2018 and the previous version. Do you think my changes should have been kept? DASL51984 (Speak to me!) 15:32, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

I removed the text in question and replaced it with paraphrased text. Have a look at the article as it now stands and advise on suitability. Spintendo ᔦᔭ 10:58, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Park Slope crash[edit]

An IP keeps adding a "see also" link to the 1960 New York mid-air collision on the grounds that they were both crashes into populated areas of New York. That's true, but the events are otherwise dissimilar in their nature and origin, as opposed to their effect. The See Also section is best suited for links to events that have a similar origin, so a loss of control accident would be more suitable. I'd argue that the USAir Flight 427 crash is a better see also candidate, as it was a rudder control accident, but I'm not advocating its inclusion either. 101.x is welcome to use this talkpage as requested on their talkpage to make a case for inclusion rather than simply re-adding it. Acroterion (talk) 11:59, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

 Unrelated You're absolutely correct that they are completely different accidents whose only connection is that they both occurred in the New York area. Even though it's called the Park Slope crash, that accident — which occurred 41 years prior to AA 587 — involved three different locations and none of them are anywhere near AA 587's crash site in Rockaway:
  1. The 1960 collision over Staten Island, more than 30 miles west of AA 587's crash site
  2. The TWA's impact location, also on Staten Island
  3. The United's impact location in the accident's eponymous neighborhood, more than 10 miles northwest of Rockaway.
And don't get me started on the causes of these crashes, which are worlds apart. I fail to see any connections here. Furthermore, if one looks at the talk page of the account making these changes you will see message after message of editors complaining about that user's edits. In following WP:♠ I'd have to say that this IP is WP:NOTHERE. Spintendo      09:24, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Departure delay[edit]

The ASN source mentions a security related delay occuring the morning of the flight. However, the ASN source does not indicate where this information originated from. Additionally, the NTSB only mentions the following as delaying the aircraft:

Statements provided to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Police Department by American Airlines maintenance and avionics personnel indicated that, sometime between 0730 and 0800, the captain reported that the number 2 pitch trim and yaw damper system would not engage. Two avionics technicians were sent to the airplane to investigate the problem. They performed an auto flight system (AFS) check, which indicated a fault with the number 2 flight augmentation computer. The circuit breaker was then reset, another AFS check was performed, and no fault was detected. In addition, an autoland system check was performed, and that test also did not detect a fault. The avionics technicians estimated that they were in the cockpit for 5 to 7 minutes.[1]

This would place the timeline at about 8:15am-8:17am when the technicians left the aircraft (given that the latest the captain would have called for their assistance, 8am, and a response time of 10 minutes plus work time estimate of 5 to 7 minutes). The ASN source said that the aircraft doors were closed and locked at 8:38am, and the aircraft pushed back at 9am. That leaves only a 21 minute possible security delay (from 8:17am to 8:38am, when they closed the doors) which does not seem really notable enough to mention. As there is no good evidence otherwise for this, and mentioning it is problematic, it should be removed. Additionally, the text as it was added to the article was insufficiently paraphrased from the source material. .spintendo) 23:07, 7 May 2018 (UTC)