Talk:American Dream Meadowlands

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Untitled[edit]

My friend and I dispute the neutrality of the article. It sound like a paid advertisement. That said, the chocolate waterfall in It's Sugar! sounds pretty royale and sweet.

Doesn't really sound like an advertisement to me. Leo-Roy!review me 01:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Photos[edit]

  • I think someone should post some pictures in this article, as it's becoming bigger. Sk5893 18:08 17 Dec 2006 (UTD)
There aren't a lot on the Commons. We'll have to wait until somebody decides to upload them there. Leo-Roy!review me 01:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cleaned up[edit]

I cleaned up the "main features" section to make it more neutral and less like an advertisement. I also removed the notice. I think the other notices on the top of the page should be removed also, while they may have held true in the past, I think the article has gotten better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LancerEvolution ; (talk • contribs) 20:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

HBLR station possibly abandoned[edit]

The article says "There are also plans to extend the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail to the complex." This is supported by a 5 year-old press release.

Doesn't the existence of the new Meadowlands Rail Line obviate the extension of the HBLR? I think the above sentence should be removed but I don't have any documentary sources that say the light rail option has been abandoned. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 12:54, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Found the source here. Removing entire paragraph: 1st sentence was already in the lead; 2nd sentence no longer applied. Besides, I couldn't see what this had to do with Concerns and Controversy. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 11:27, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

correction![edit]

in the article its states it will be the largest in the united states and third largest in the world. it should be the largest in north amarica... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.74.99 (talk) 04:01, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Recent Name Change[edit]

I made the name change while not signed in, I apologize. The name has been changed to "Meadowlands."

Source: http://www.northjersey.com/news/051410_Ross_taking_over_Xanadu_dumping_name.html

--Laxplayer630 (talk) 03:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinate error[edit]

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The following coordinate fixes are needed for


yes —162.18.92.17 (talk) 14:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done —WWoods (talk) 19:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update[edit]

add to this list and update the article with content from the news Ocaasi c 04:36, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NJ State funding[edit]

There's a note in the article about Chris Christie bashing the project and then no mention of the massive tax breaks (several hundred million dollars) that were put in place to save it later. A lot of media claims he was championing the cause so it seems relevant to mention. Does this content (absurdly out of date as it is) seem relevant?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/chris_christie_hopes_to_quickl.html

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/03/gov_christie_change_the_outsid.html

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2011/12/is_the_american_dream_meadowlands_project_too_big_to_fail.html

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/nov/14/xanadu-re-do-looks-expand-footprint-nj/

Additional updates might include the new developer, their attempt to expand its foot print, and their insane projections at 150,000 visitors a day and how that wont effect the traffic. Yes, I'm biased but there's news articles covering this continued madness which are less biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.213.33 (talk) 04:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Opening slipped to 2014 or later[edit]

"American Dream Meadowlands’ amusement park, originally slated to open in the fall of 2013, won’t be finished by the Feb. 2, 2014, date for Super Bowl XLVIII, developer Triple Five conceded in March. And it now says the shopping mall also may not be ready by then."[1] --John Nagle (talk) 17:51, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Still not open, but now refinanced through a public bond issue.[2] --John Nagle (talk) 20:56, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removed promotional-type edit[edit]

I undid an edit about all the great things it's supposed to have, per WP:CRYSTAL. Let's wait until it opens, or at least gets close to opening. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 19:36, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't promotional. I read it in a news story in a newspaper website and included a reference to the article. I support WP:CRYSTAL, but that article does not ban all predictions, just those that are not verifiable. This one is verifiable and sourced. I don't want to start a war, so please give me your opinion on this before I restore my edit. Thanks. AlanK (talk) 21:56, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

After no response I have restored my edits. A few comments. WP:CRYSTAL does not forbid all prediction statements, only those that are not verifiable. These come from a newspaper article, and that article was reporting on what was found in a bonding proposal. Looking at the entire article, it appears that John Nagle has only popped in to reject this one edit. If he had looked at previous edits or the entire article he might have considered using WP:CRYSTAL to nominate the entire article for deletion (which I would not have supported) because almost everything in the article is subject to some level of speculation. American Dreams Meadowlands has been a significant New Jersey news item since 2003 due to the cost, size, extent of government finance, and visibility. It would be difficult to have an article reporting on these issues without also mentioning the potential benefits. Such an article could be criticized for being a violation of WP:NPOV. AlanK (talk) 20:03, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This project has a decades-long history of promising and not delivering, so statements about how great it's going to be have to be viewed as uncertain. WP:CRYSTAL says "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." Most of the list of great stuff the mall is supposed to have comes from an article that claims it would be open in 2014.[3]. The newly added claims about the recreational facilities come from a site with a copyright date of 2013, and is written as if the place were actually open for business.[4] Such advance publicity problems have come up on Wikipedia before, notably at Better Place and Poseidon Undersea Resorts. The first had PR which claimed extensive electric car operations due to happen in the near future. They didn't deliver and went bankrupt. The second has an impressive web site.[5] Like the American Dream Meadowlands web site, it describes the place as if it was actually open. In reality, the project was never built. So, for American Dream Meadowlands, I put "Publicity materials for the project claim that the complex, when built, will contain the following features." at the head of the features section. John Nagle (talk) 20:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good addition, John. I personally was not commenting on the quality of the proposals. That clearly would have been out of bounds. The information that I posted was statistical - Numbers and types of amenities that are anticipated. As for the possibility that it will open at any particular time, if you drive past the site (I happened to be in that area last month), it's clear that there is activity going on at the site. How that will translate into an actual opening date is not clear.AlanK (talk) 19:08, 3 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Opening date just slipped again, to "late summer 2017", per New York Times.[1] John Nagle (talk) 23:10, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Considering removing the list of announced tenants. There have been several lists over the years [6][7][8] but as the opening date kept slipping, the list changed. So now we have an unsourced list which seems to combine several sources, some out of date. Per WP:CRYSTAL, it's probably better to just delete the whole thing. If and when the mall opens, a reliable list should be available. John Nagle (talk) 21:32, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, no reason to list them. The WP page is not a promotional tool for them. The tenants dont really belong here, especially before its open. - GalatzTalk 22:03, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An anon put back the tenants list, and I took it out. It's just too speculative. We've had years of proposed tenants lists, none of which turned into reality because the mall didn't open. John Nagle (talk) 20:34, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, especially since it could be facing more huge delays tenants might pull out - GalatzTalk 20:45, 26 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Took out the entertainment tenant list. One just changed, anyway. John Nagle (talk) 05:50, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And I added some back. You are vastly misunderstanding WP:CRYSTAL, and it's clear you have been on this article for years. You appear to have some sort of grudge or strong position on this mall. As it stands, there is verification of claims that this mall will have the listed entertainment amenities. You're right that it may be subject to change, but until there is contradictory information or a disputing source, this information should remain.
It would fit in WP:CRYSTAL if the page added that the Legoland Discovery Center was expected to have a mini miniland, like other Discovery Centers, or some other unverifiable/unsourced prediction/speculation. However, your suggestion that nothing in the future can be listed because of WP:CRYSTAL is ridiculous on its face.
Please cease this edit war. It's bordering on vandalism, and I would consider elevating this conflict. Jbbdude (talk) 23:40, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Bloomberg has a good retrospective on this mess.[9]. They have a bar chart of announced and canceled tenants. You can see the ages of retail since 2002. The YMCA Fitness Center was replaced by a Virgin Megastore and then by Uniquo. John Nagle (talk) 02:36, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Construction seems to have stopped.[edit]

Press reports indicate construction has stopped.[10] The promoters want another $1 billion in financing, financed with public bonds. This is not being well received by local government officials. As of July 11, it's questioned whether it will ever open at all. The promoters now say opening "within two years", which pushes the opening to at least 2018. [11] John Nagle (talk) 07:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Progress on the financing deal.[12] Opening date pushed back to no earlier than summer 2018. John Nagle (talk) 19:57, 10 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As of August 15, 2016, the developers are trying to get a construction loan so they can restart construction.[13] Undid edit by anon which said "the mall will open in 2018", per WP:CRYSTAL. The info box currently says opening date "unknown", which is the best we can do given the history. John Nagle (talk) 20:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Bloomberg reports latest financing deal in litigation.[14] John Nagle (talk) 17:09, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the section about the stopped construction to the History section. I intend to completely clean up the lede, moving the detailed history to the History section. I am weighing adding the information about this lawsuit and the NJSEA admission of the error in the bond issue to either the History section or the Controversies section. If you feel strongly, you can pick one. Jbbdude (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
NYT says construction has restarted. [15] But they have pictures of the interior of the mall in 2009 and now, and it was closer to completion in 2009. The interior was completely ripped out, to be replaced. "Triple Five estimates that the site is 25 percent complete."[16]. John Nagle (talk) 02:48, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An anon from New Jersey just added "As of 12/21/16 work has stoped yet again workers told to leave site immediately." Unsourced, and sounds like WP:OR. NJ TV station report from yesterday indicates the financing deal is in trouble again.[17] Nothing on a construction halt. If there's no news coverage within 24 hours, suggest deleting that line. John Nagle (talk) 19:52, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
News story confirms work stoppage.[18] John Nagle (talk) 08:17, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Construction is still stopped. Site quiet as of March 2017.[19]. John Nagle (talk) 20:01, 11 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nickelodeon Universe replaced DreamWorks as the indoor theme park[edit]

Nickelodeon Universe is finally getting the 2nd theme park, replacing DreamWorks as an indoor theme park in American Dream Meadowlands.[20] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.31.142 (talk) 19:56, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is incomplete. News reports have indicated that the Nickelodeon Universe will be the theme park, and that the DreamWorks licensing is still set for the water park. I have edited the article accordingly. It's clear that this is a controversial project, but the entertainment tenants list (as it stands in the article now) has all been confirmed by sources within the last year. Jbbdude (talk) 23:30, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Big design change[edit]

On December 7, 2016, the developers, Triple Five, announced a major design change for the project. The solid exterior walls (already built) are to be removed, and glass walls replace them. Glass roofs replace some existing roofs. News story: [21] Video of render: [22]. Meanwhile, construction has apparently stopped (again), and the financing deal is stalled (again). John Nagle (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Still stalled.[23] WNYC: "Today the site is lifeless. The hundreds of workers who were here in December didn't come back from Christmas break." Financing deal apparently in limbo. Developers now focusing on new Miami project.[24]. John Nagle (talk) 21:11, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Still stalled, March 2017.[25]. News coverage has died down. No updates on company site. John Nagle (talk) 20:06, 11 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Updated article. Construction stopped in December 2016 and hasn't resumed months later. No news about construction being restarted, new funding, or much of anything, except a local news report of the site still being inactive. John Nagle (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Developer won't respond to media questions about why project has stopped.[26] John Nagle (talk) 17:24, 24 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
An anon changed the status of the project from "stalled" to "abandoned". I undid that; they may be right, but so far no reliable source is saying that. Press reports indicate the construction cranes are still in place. John Nagle (talk) 07:22, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some progress on funding, but no progress on construction.[27] John Nagle (talk) 08:02, 11 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 April 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 21:33, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

American Dream (shopping and entertainment complex) → American Dream Meadowlands – The full name is actually "American Dream Meadowlands", despite claims that it is not. Although it would seem as if the "Meadowlands" part is removed, that is only because this is the only "American Dream" branded venue in existence at the moment, as one is opening in Miami in the next few years. This may be a controversial move, so I put this request here for everyone to discuss. JE98 (talk) 21:06, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The history of American Dream is missing a few parts, recently[edit]

https://www.nj.com/news/2020/06/coronavirus-fuels-unease-over-american-dreams-future-and-theres-no-reopening-date-yet.html https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/business/2020/07/09/american-dream-mega-mall-sues-dongs-bogam-over-7-7-m-lease/5401606002/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.11.226.213 (talk) 18:33, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Completion[edit]

When will the entire American Dream Mall be completed? Zachbarbo (talk) 17:39, December 31, 2021

Isn't it complete now? Nightscream (talk) 01:55, 1 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New infobox image[edit]

Which of these is a better fit for a new infobox picture?

Jibreel23 (talk) 22:52, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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