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Proposal for the deletion of all the galleries of personalities from the articles about ethnic groups[edit]

Seemingly there is a significant number of commentators which support the general removal of infobox collages. I think there is a great opportunity to get a general agreement on this matter. It is clear that it has to be a broad consensus, which must involve as many editors as possible, otherwise there is a big risk for this decision to be challenged in the near future. I opened a Request for comment process, hoping that more people will adhere to this proposal. Please comment here. Hahun (talk) 07:06, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

New Heading for section for "White and European Americans"[edit]

Some North Asians (e.g. some Russians) may fit well under the "White and European Americans" heading, but Central Asians (Kazakhstanis, Uzbekistanis, etc.) as well as Southwest Asians (Ethnocultural/Ethnoreligious groups like Jews, Druze, Kurds, Arabs, etc.) neither historically nor fully represent the terms "White" or "European." Relatively recent (within the past 100 years) horrific events affecting both public opinion and legislation in Europe and the United States such as the Holocaust or anti-Syrian/Muslim protests seem to prove that those of Middle Eastern descent are neither "white" nor "European." In many cases, even if these Middle Eastern populations "believe" they are "European" or "white," they continue to face persecution for their "non-whiteness."

Also, no Middle-Eastern American groups are included in the "White and European" ethnic ancestry chart—should Middle-Eastern American groups have their own section in general? This page does not have to directly reflect the census—it can reflect the various ethnic groups of the Americas in a more accurate, but still simple and clear, way.

What do you think? I suggest at the very least changing the heading to "White, European, and Middle Eastern Americans." Thank you. Jeffgr9 (talk) 20:24, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

I think a) there's a good likelihood that you are of Middle Eastern extraction, and b) just "White" with an introductory sentence reprising the current census definition which would have addressed your issue would have been best. As it is looks like somebody's pushing something, sticks out as verbose at the same time as it misses North Africans. Also "Hispanic or Latino Ethnicity" would work better than the colon. Lycurgus (talk) 05:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your input. I created a new, cited section for "Middle Eastern and North African Americans." Jeffgr9 (talk) 19:20, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Most Jews in the U.S. would be considered white/European. TFD (talk) 22:14, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, Jewish adherents, like Muslim and Christian adherents, are tabulated as followers of a religion rather than as an ethnic group. Soupforone (talk) 03:42, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Jews are an Ethnocultural/Ethnoreligious group that signify both hereditary lineage and spiritual practice as major factors in their Jewish identity. As cited previously, and here: most Jews are more related to each other than to any other group and many feel more comfortable identifying as Jews more than anything else. Jeffgr9 (talk) 08:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
European Jews are also considered an ethnicity with their own language, "Yiddish." Many of them, particularly socialists, were not even religious. TFD (talk) 18:19, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Yiddish is a Creole language of Hebrew as Jews began interacting with German, Polish, Russian, and other Eastern European languages. And Jews do not have to be religious to be Jews. Even when conquerors--such as the Greeks, Romans, and Spanish--repressed Jews from practicing Judaism or speaking Hebrew, these people remained Jews, because they are both an ethnic group and adherents to a philosophical/spiritual practice. Jeffgr9 (talk) 21:31, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Okay, but note that the MENA category isn't under review - it's a new official designation and didn't exist before. The genetic stuff is also off-topic and uncertain [1]. That pointed out, not all Jews came straight from the Levant; many really are European (Ashkenazi & Sephardic). Anyway, the census bureau doesn't tabulate religions as ethnic groups. Soupforone (talk) 04:10, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Jews are an Ethnocultural/Ethnoreligious group and a Tribe, whose roots originate in the Western Levant (Canaan/the Land of Israel). Judaism is the philosophical/moral system that Jews first created in the Middle East. One of the customs that Jews employ dictates that when people join the Tribe, or "converted," they adopt ethnocultural customs deriving from the Middle East, and are furthermore considered ethnically Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite.
During their various Diasporas, some Jews adapted their language, culture, political and philosophical beliefs to the surrounding hostlands, and also acquired new genetic admixture from the surrounding groups that changed some of their physical characteristics, but ultimately maintained their main, Middle Eastern, genetic make-up. For this reasons, Jews faced persecution all over Europe throughout the millennia because they were perceived as Middle Eastern or Oriental and not European/"white." I have even already cited a source that presents a bill passed by US Congress in 1910 describing "Armenians, Assyrians, and Jews" as Asiatic—for which they meant Middle Eastern.
Jews are Levantine—and therefore MENA. Druze, like Jews, are an Ethnocultural group—both an ethnicity and a cultural/religious group—and are also MENA. Jeffgr9 (talk) 00:21, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Also, as indicated in the articles and sources regarding George Shishim, MENA Americans had previously rallied together first to claim their identity as "white," but then in 1987, MENA Americans rallied to either change their classification to non-white, or to permit MENA Americans (i.e. Jews and Arabs) and other ethnic groups classified as "white" to claim discrimination by white people, even if the government still classified MENA Americans (and the like) as "white." Jeffgr9 (talk) 01:08, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
I get it, but please note that the 9/11 passage on attacks on Jews is original research. The link only indicates that in 2012, prompted in part by post-9/11 discrimination against Arab Americans, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee petitioned the Department of Commerce's Minority Business Development Agency to designate the MENA populations as a minority/disadvantaged community [2]. This is already explained further down in the text. With regard to religious adherents, the census bureau describes them as just that rather than as ethnoreligious groups. It also counts Muslims and Christians among the religious adherents. Soupforone (talk) 03:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
Ah, it looks like the article I was using for the first sentence connecting Jewish persecution with Arab persecution was further down in that paragraph:
"In its two decisions today, the Court upheld the rights of an Iraqi-American associate professor to use the law in a suit asserting that he was denied tenure because of his Arab origins and of a Jewish congregation to use it in a damage suit against eight men accused of spray-painting its synagogue with large Nazi and anti-Semitic symbols and slogans." (Taylor, Stuart Jr. 1987).
For the Sikhs and Jews line regarding MENA/South Asian racial statuses—please refer to information on the term "Ethnoreligious group." The term is integral to Jews, Druze, Kurds, and Sikhs. Genetic/ethnic heritage is very much a part of Jewish identity, and many Jews do not practice Judaism. This distinction does not pertain to Christians, and only pertains to some Muslims—in this case, however, those Muslims would most likely opt for MENA status (i.e. descendants of Ali, Muhammad's cousin) which they would most likely already have under these new definitions by the census. Until Jews (and/or Sikhs, who might want to identify as "South Asian") are either accepted under the MENA designation, or have their own designation as "Jews" in the census, they must be identified as an Ethnoreligious (or Ethnocultural) group and not solely a religion. Thank you for your understanding in this process. I appreciate your work. Jeffgr9 (talk) 04:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Jeffgr9, Yiddish is not a creole of Hebrew, it is a version of German with Hebrew terms retained for religious topics and its dialects added terms from local languages, such as Polish words for Polish Yiddish speakers. Few if any European Jews spoke Hebrew when they arrived, they spoke Aramaic or Greek. And genetics are irrelevant. Certainly there are Americans who did not consider them white, and they thought the same about Eastern and Southern Europeans. Italians for example were called "guineas." TFD (talk) 06:39, 16 December 2015 (UTC) ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Jeffgr9, I understand but the passage is synthesis, citekill and redundant:

"Even with continuing racist, white supremacist and "radical Arab and Muslim" (Foxman 2003) attacks on and conspiracy theories about Jews,[140][141][142] and increasing racist suspicions of and attacks against Arabs and Arab Muslims following September 11, 2001,[143] the United States Census Bureau still considered all MENA Americans as "white,"[144] and only counted Jews as members of a religion.[145] Many members of these groups, from Jews, to North Africans, to Arab Americans, do not consider themselves "white."[146][147][148]"

Please note that the spray-painting of the Jewish synagogue in 1987 had nothing to do with the census bureau's ethnic classification, nor does the 144 census brief claim it did. As pointed out, what actually prompted the bureau to establish the new MENA entry was a petition by the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee addressed to the Department of Commerce's Minority Business Development Agency; it sought to designate the MENA populations as a minority/disadvantaged community [3]. The assertion that Jewish, North African and Arab Americans do not consider themselves "white" is also already implied by the phrase that "the expert groups, including some Jewish organizations, felt that the earlier "white" designation no longer accurately represents MENA identity, so they successfully lobbied for a distinct categorization." Lastly, I get what you mean about ethnoreligious groups, but please stop singling out Jewish and Sikh adherents. The census bureau explains that it doesn't tabulate any faiths as ethnic groups but instead as religions, including Muslim and Christian denominations ("the Census Bureau does not currently tabulate on religious responses to the race or ethnic questions (e.g., Sikh, Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Lutheran, etc." [4]). That Jews are an ethnoreligious group is also already indicated further down ("Jews are an ethnoreligious group with culture and ethnicity intertwined"). Soupforone (talk) 03:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Soupforone (talk) 03:27, 17 December 2015 (UTC), Your statement, "This process does not pertain to Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Sikh and other religious adherents, whom the bureau tabulates as followers of a religion rather than members of an ethnic group." as it stands, is false: The people who believe in Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Sikhism are surely included in the census, but through the category of each of their currently recognized ethnicities. However, the term Ethnoreligious, or Ethnocultural, means that a group signifies both its ethnic background and its cultural practice as essential to the group's identity. Thus, the only two groups on that list whose ethnocultural statuses are not yet/currently tabulated as ethnic groups are only the Sikhs and the Jews, not Muslims or Christians. The statement I included: As for the most recent legal definitions of race regarding MENA Americans, the United States Census Bureau is presently finalizing the ethnic classification of MENA populations. This process does not "currently" include Ethnoreligious groups such as Sikhs or Jews, as the Bureau only tabulates these groups as followers of religions rather than members of ethnic groups" addresses this difference, and does not state that people who follow a religious belief are not counted on the census. You have already agreed that Jews are MENA, even despite the Census' definitions. The problem, therefore, is not whether Jews or Sikhs (or Druze, for that matter) should be included/recognized because they are religious, but rather because they are ethnocultural groups that practice customs specific to their ethnicities.
Your previous statement claiming "including some Jewish organizations" has nothing to do with what the cited passage states. The problem here in relation to the categorization of the ethnicity of Jews very much relates to how Jews feel about being labeled. Many Jews, as noted in the citation, do not want to be labeled as they were in Europe, because being labeled as Jews (i.e. Semitic/Middle Eastern) meant probable death; but, at the same time, they do not feel they should be labeled "white" or any of the European ethnic groups because all of those groups persecuted them for being ethnic Jews.
Speaking of which, the anecdote relating to the swastikas spray-painted on the Jewish synagogues effectively does relate to ethnic identification of Jews, because white supremacists and Nazis believe Jews to be non-white—specifically Jews/Semitic (hence the term, Antisemitism. The statement shows how even though Jews do not consider themselves "white," white groups specifically do not consider Jews "white," and historically and genetically Jews are Middle Eastern/Semitic, the Census Bureau has declined to identify Jews as an ethnic group, but solely a religious group. Thank you. Jeffgr9 (talk) 02:47, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
I understand. It was just that the phrasing implied that, despite the spray-painting of the synagogue and conspiracy theories against Jews, the census bureau tabulates Jews as an ethnoreligious population when it actually doesn't. You're right, though, that Jews are an ethnoreligious group and have Semitic historical and genetic roots; so the assertion that Jews and Sikhs are not currently tabulated as ethnic groups makes sense I guess. Also, please note that Jewish groups were among the leaders and experts from the Arab American Institute, the Arab American Studies Association, and other leading Middle Eastern and Arab American scholars, activists, and organizations that the bureau met with over the new MENA designation ([5] - page 24). Soupforone (talk) 04:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your conversation and consensus. I have edited the MENA American "feelings" paragraph so that it provides a transition between time periods but also falls in line with what you were saying above—i.e. it dates the feelings of MENA Americans before and after 2010 about the mainstream considering them "white." Thank you again and I hope you are well!! :) Jeffgr9 (talk) 06:37, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

TFD (talk), and yes, Yiddish is by definition a creole. Jews who spoke/wrote in Hebrew or Hebrew dialects Aramaic migrated/were brought as slaves to Eastern Europe/Russia, where they creolized their native language to adapt to the dominant languages.

From the Yiddish Institute of Jewish Research, here are quotes describing co-parenting of Afro-Asiatic, Semitic languages Hebrew and Aramaic to Yiddish:

The language is characterized by a synthesis of Germanic (the majority component, derived from medieval German city dialects, themselves recombined) with Hebrew and Aramaic. (pg. 1).
From the 1970s on, some linguists, using evidence from both Germanic and Semitic components, began opting for a more easterly Danube-region origin, around Jewish centers in Regensburg, Nuremberg, and Rothenburg. (pg. 2).
By all accounts, Yiddish was from very early on the universal spoken language of Jews in the Germanic-speaking territory known as Ashkenaz in Jewish culture. It was one of the major new European Jewish cultures that arose in medieval Europe. The others include Sepharad (Seforad) on the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal); Tsarfat (Tsorfas) on French soil; Kenaan (Knaan) in the Slavic lands; Loe(y)z in Italy; Yavan (Yovon) in Greece; and Hagar (Hogor) in Hungary.
From earliest times, Yiddish was written using the same alphabet as Hebrew and Aramaic. Semitic alphabets have only consonants (many, including Hebrew and Aramaic, eventually developed systems for indicating vowels via diacritic marks). The loss of some ancient consonants in actual pronunciation “freed up” a number of letters to function in Yiddish as European-style vowel-letters, most famously ayin for e; alef for a and o sounds; and various combinations of yud and vov for diphthongs. Some of these devices were further developments of Aramaic-era usages. In Yiddish, the consonant-only Semitic script evolved into a vowel-plus-consonant European-type alphabet that provided a good (eventually, for modern standard Yiddish perfect) phonetic match between letter and sound. Words of Hebrew and Aramaic origin continued, however, to be spelled historically. They also maintain a unique sound pattern within the language; words are usually accented on the syllable before the last (the penult), rather than on the root syllable as in the Germanic parts of the language. (pg. 3).
Eleventh-century “glosses” (translations of “hard words” into the vernacular) are early manifestations of a written tradition that used Yiddish to explain Hebrew and Aramaic texts. The oldest known complete Yiddish sentence, dated 1272, occurs in an illuminated festival prayerbook manuscript known as the Worms Mahzor (Vórmser mákhzer); the words contain a blessing for the person who will carry the book to the synagogue. Its text is written into the hollows of a large calligraphic Hebrew word. (pg. 3-4).
In the east, the original Germanic and Semitic components were enriched by a Slavic component, which gave the language a new layer. (6).
In the early Soviet Union, Yiddish became a government-supported language and literature, and the state financed school systems, advanced research institutes, and literature. But Soviet rule, after some years of freedom in the earlier 1920s, made for a highly “straightjacketed Yiddish” with dictates on spelling (banishing the historic spelling of Semitic-origin words in the late 1920s), vocabulary, and, most importantly, content. Then, in the 1930s, Stalinist orders closed most of the extant institutions. In the purges of 1937, leading Yiddish writers and cultural leaders were arrested and executed; later, in the major postwar purge, the greatest surviving authors were murdered in 1952. (pg. 6).
Hasidism enhanced the status of Yiddish among the three languages of Ashkenaz. A new layer of sacred words that derived from Hebrew or Aramaic came into the everyday language, for example, dvéykes (literally, a cleaving; reinvigorated as a form of Hasidic rapture and cleavage to God); histálkes (disappearance, adapted to refer to the death of a Hasidic holy person—a tsadik or rebbe). (pg. 6-7).
In the aftermath of the Holocaust, the cultural affinity of most American and other Western Jews was for the emerging State of Israel and Israeli Hebrew. Moreover, Yiddish often had an image of “greenhorn” lack of sophistication and lowbrow humor; its use was associated with failure to climb on board the American socioeconomic ladder of success. Starting in the 1960s, attitudes toward Yiddish began to change, influenced by several factors including the gradual death of the last masters (and of Yiddish- speaking parents and relatives) that evoked nostalgia for the “old country”; growing consciousness (and knowledge) of the Holocaust; a recognition that Israeli Hebrew was now secure and that its proponents need not “fear” Yiddish; the changing evaluation in the United States of black and other ethnic cultures; and, a growing scholarly movement that saw a great world literature in Yiddish prose, poetry, and drama in 150 years that can schematically be dated from 1850 to 2000. (pg. 11).

Yiddish, like other creoles, features code-switching, for which Jews could understand similar Hebrew-derived words that non-Jews in Eastern-Europe could not understand—this idea is noted in Joseph Dorman's 2011 documentary, "Sholem Aleichem: Laughing in the Darkness." Some people may debate this idea, but there is no definitive refutation of Yiddish and Ladino as Creole/pidgin languages, because ultimately, Yiddish shares two co-parents: Indo-Aryan—as much of the grammar and word structure—and Afroasiatic the Hebrew—in which it was originally written and from which many words were adapted—by Jews who arrived in Germany, Russia, Poland, and the rest of Eastern Europe.

Again, Yiddish (and Ladino for that matter) was originally written in Hebrew, and was specifically created by Jews who adapted to the dominant languages of regions in which they arrived after various Jewish diasporas:[1]

"As these Central European communities grew, local Jews developed their own unique hybrid of medieval German dialects, combining them with Hebrew and Aramaic. From this sprang Yiddish: a rugged vernacular, destined to bind millions of distinct European Jews - both secular and religious - into a common Jewish culture that would define Ashkenazi life in Eastern Europe until the Holocaust..."
"Likewise, Hebrew remained the sacred language of prayer and scripture and of responsa literature (rabbinic dialogues regarding law), while Yiddish was used as the everyday vernacular, assuring that Eastern Jews would continue to maintain ties to Jews in German lands, just as they would remain distinct from their non-Jewish hosts. Within the Polish settlement experience - this is noteworthy as a special case Yiddish was not abandoned for the dominant Polish. It remained a most significant and distinguishing factor of Jewish life and culture well into the 20th century." (YIVO 2004).
Therefore, Yiddish is a Creole language from both Hebrew (an Afro-Asiatic langauge and the various Eastern European languages (Indo-Aryan languages) that Jews encountered.

As to your second argument, genetics are absolutely relevant—they tell specific stories for Jews in their diaspora. Jews suffered various Exiles and Occupations from their homeland—from Ancient Egyptian Occupation of the Levant, to Assyrian Captivity and Exile, to Babylonian Captivity and Exile, to Greek Occupation and Exile, to the Roman Occupation and Exile. These events subjected Jews to slavery, pogroms, cultural assimilation, forced expulsions, genocide, and more, scattering Jews all around the world, known today as the Jewish diaspora.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]

In addition, one of the key differences between Jews, a Middle Eastern (hence, Afro-Asiatic) ethnocultural/Ethnoreligious group, and any European ethnic groups remains that Jews have never been considered true Europeans. Even those who converted or did not practice Judaism were molested, taxed, killed, or otherwise persecuted/oppressed by the dominant classes of Europe. For example, as Roman Historian, Suetonius, describes, Emperor Domitian's implementation of the Fiscus Judaicus tax:

Besides the exactions from others, the poll-tax on the Jews was levied with extreme rigour, both on those who lived after the manner of Jews in the city, without publicly professing themselves to be such [822], and on those who, by (490) concealing their origin, avoided paying the tribute imposed upon that people. I remember, when I was a youth, to have been present [823], when an old man, ninety years of age, had his person exposed to view in a very crowded court, in order that, on inspection, the procurator might satisfy himself whether he was circumcised. [824].

Even though these Jews did not publicly identify as Jews, they were still persecuted for being Jews. The Romans also forbade Christians to intermarry with Jews, burned down their synagogues, and prevented Jews from civil and occupational services.

Here are more laws that Rome used to separate, isolate, and persecute Jews from the rest of Europe:

"Eusebius of Caesarea, The Life of the Blessed Emperor Constantine"
" appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul..."
"Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd..."(Chapter XVIII)
"...I have enumerated than in any other, but also that it is most fitting that all should unite in desiring that which sound reason appears to demand, and in avoiding all participation in the perjured conduct of the Jews." (Chapter XIX)
"HE also passed a law to the effect that no Christian should remain in servitude to a Jewish master, on the ground that it could not be right that those whom the Saviour had ransomed should be subjected to the yoke of slavery by a people who had slain the prophets and the Lord himself. If any were found hereafter in these circumstances, the slave was to be set at liberty, and the master punished by a fine." (Chapter XXVII)
"ROMAN IMPERIAL LAWS concerning Jews (329-553)" adapted from Amon Linder, The Jews in Roman Imperial Legislation (Wayne State Univ. Pr., 1987).:
"Confiscation of the Properties of Christian Converts to Judaism. Emperor Constantius II, July 3, 353":
"If someone shall become Jew from Christian and shall be joined to sacrilegious assemblies, we decree that his property shall be vindicated to the fisc's [state treasury's] dominion once the accusation has been proven."
"Prohibition of Christians from Participating in Pagan, Jewish, and Manichaean Cults. Emperors Gratian, Valentinian II, and Theodosius I, May 21, 383":
"We punish the crime of Christians passing over to altars and temples by abrogating their power to bequeath in testament. Also those who despised the dignity of the Christian religion and name and polluted themselves with the Jewish contagions shall be punished for their disgraceful acts."
"Prohibition on Intermarriage. Emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I, and Arcadius, March 14, 388":
"No Jew shall take a Christian woman in marriage, neither shall a Christian marry a Jewess. Indeed, if anyone shall commit something of the kind, his crime shall be considered as adultery, with the right to accuse allowed the general public."
"Against God-fearers and Conversion to Judaism. Honorius and Theodosius II, April 1, 409":
"Some people, moreover, oblivious of their and their position, dare to transgress the Law to such an extent, that they force some to cease being Christian and adopt the abominable and vile name of the Jews. Although those that have committed this crime shall be legally condemned under the laws of the ancient emperors, still it does not bother us to admonish repeatedly, that those imbued in the Christian mysteries shall not be forced to adopt Jewish perversity, which is alien to the Roman Empire, and abjure Christianity. And if someone should believe that this be willfully attempted, we order that the instigators of the deed with their accomplices shall sugger the punishment decreed in the former laws, for it is graver than death and crueler than massacre when someone abjures the Christian faith and becomes polluted with the Jewish incredulity. We order, therefore, that [...] and legislate in a decree devoted to God, namely under this instruction, that if someone shall attempt to rise against this law, let him know that he shall be punished for high treason."
"Protection of Synagogues and the Jewish Sabbath. Honorius with Theodosius II, July 26, 412":
"No one shall dare to violate or seize and occupy what are known the names of synagogues and are assuredly frequented by the conventicles of the Jews, for all must retain what is theirs with unmolested right and without harm to religion and cult. Furthermore, since the ancient custom and usage preserved the day of the Sabbath, sacred to the said people of the Jews, we decree that this too must be avoided..."
"Allowing Jewish Converts to Christianity to Return to Judaism. Emperors Honorius and Theodosius II, September 24, 416":
"It had been ordained, in the old laws as well as in ours, that, since we have learned that convicts of the Jewish religion want to join the community of the Church in order to escape their crimes and out of various necessities, this is done not from devotion to the Faith, but as a false simulation. Let the judges of the provinces in which such crimes are said to have been committed know, therefore, that our laws are to be obeyed in such a way that those people whom they shall observe as not adhering to this cult in the constancy of their religious profession, nor to be imbued with the faith and mysteries of the venerable baptism, are to be allowed to return to their own law, for it is of greater benefit to Christianity."
"Exclusion of Jews from Public Service. Emperors Honorius and Theodosius II, March 10, 418":
"As for those, however, who are subject to the perversity of this [Jewish] nation and are proven to have entered the Military Service, we decree that their military belt shall be undone without any hesitation, and that they shall not derive any help or protection from their former merits."
"Policy on Synagogues. Emperors Honorius and Theodosius II, February 15, 423":
"It seems right that in the future none of the synagogues of the Jews shall either be indiscriminately seized or put on fire. If there are some synagogues that were seized or vindicated to churches or indeed consecrated to the venerable mysteries in a recent undertaking and after the law was passed, they shall be given in exchange new places, on which they could build, that is, to the measure of the synagogues taken. Votive offerings as well, if they are in fact seized, shall be returned to them provided that they have not yet been dedicated to the sacred mysteries; but if a venerable consecration does not permit their restitution, they shall be given the exact price for them. No synagogue shall be constructed from now on, and the old ones shall remain in their state."
"Policy toward Jews, Heretics, and Pagans. Emperors Honorius and Theodosius II, April 9, 423":
"However, these Jews shall be condemned to confiscation of property as well as to perpetual exile, If it shall be established that they have circumcised a man of our Faith or ordered him to be circumcised."
"Policy in Regard to Jews, Samaritans, Pagans, and Heretics. Theodosius II and Valentinian III, January 31, 438":
"This law orders in particular that no Jew and no Samaritan shall attain any honor of State government or administration, and that on no account shall they receive the office of Protector, nor by prison guards, lest perchance they dare molest Christians, or even priests, under pretext of any office, and lest the above mentioned who are enemies of our law, presume to condemn people or judge them under our laws. They shall not dare to construct anew any synagogue. For if they shall do so they shall know that this building shall benefit the Catholic Church and the builders of that building shall be fined fifty in gold weight. But let them know that this is allowed them, that they should repair the ruins of their synagogues. This, however, is particularly comprehended in this law, that no Jew shall dare to transfer to his law a Christian, slave or freeborn, by any persuasion whatsoever or be punished by death and loss of property."
"Church Property and Non-Christians From the Code of Justinian, Chapter XIV, March 18, 545":
"...if the Jews shall dare to build a new synagogue, the holy church of the place shall vindicate the buildings to its ownership."
As per the Fiscus Judaicus and the events relating to Roman Imperial persecution of Jews, Austin Simmons analyzes the texts relating to and the inscriptions of the "Franks Casket":
"SECTION 11 - Back Side, Lower Left: Judgement Under Vespasian: There is no escaping Roman authority. We pass now to the scene on the back lower left (fig. 12), the imperial court where father and son sit and lay the dom or 'judgement' upon the Jewish race" (page 32).
"Josephus says that Vespasian 'laid a tribute upon the Jews wheresoever they were, and enjoined every one of them to bring two drachmae every year into the Capitol, as they used to pay the same to the temple at Jerusalem'" (pg. 32).
"Says Josephus: 'and as for the rest of the multitude that were above seventeen years old, he put them into bonds, and sent them to the Egyptian mines. Titus also sent a great number into the provinces, as a present to them, that they might be destroyed upon their theatres, by the sword and by the wild beasts; but those that were under seventeen years of age were sold for slaves... now the number of those that were carried captive during this whole war was collected to be ninety-seven thousand'" (pg. 33).

More European racial persecutions toward Jews later occurred during the Spanish Inquistion, when even Jews who had converted (Conversos) to Christianity, were put to death; you may refer to one notable occasion after the murder of Pedro de Arbués (See that page, and the description of it on the Spanish Inquistion page).

Incidences like these prove that no matter what Jews do or how they perceive themselves, no matter what their skin, hair, or eye color, their political or religious beliefs, etc. Europeans have never considered and will consider Jews truly "white" or European, and further confirms the idea—with genetics, literary narratives, interviews and polling, political campaigns, etc.—that Jews are and belong to their own Middle Eastern, Semitic, Ethnocultural group, like the Druze. Thank you for your time. Jeffgr9 (talk) 02:47, 21 December 2015 (UTC)


  1. ^ Introduction: "How did Jews end up in Eastern Europe?"/"What did Jews bring with them? YIVO Institute For Jewish Research. Published 2004. Accessed December 20, 2015.
  2. ^ Marvin Perry (1 January 2012). Western Civilization: A Brief History, Volume I: To 1789. Cengage Learning. p. 87. ISBN 1-111-83720-1. 
  3. ^ Botticini, Maristella and Zvi Eckstein. "From Farmers to Merchants, Voluntary Conversions and Diaspora: A Human Capital Interpretation of History." p. 18-19. August 2006. Accessed 21 November, 2015. "The death toll of the Great Revolt against the Roman empire amounted to about 600,000 Jews, whereas the Bar Kokhba revolt in 135 caused the death of about 500,000 Jews. Massacres account for roughly 40 percent of the decrease of the Jewish population in Palestine. Moreover, some Jews migrated to Babylon after these revolts because of the worse economic conditions. Massacres account for roughly 40 percent of the decrease of the Jewish population in Palestine. Moreover, some Jews migrated to Babylon after these revolts because of the worse economic conditions. After accounting for massacres and migrations, there is an additional 30 to 40 percent of the decrease in the Jewish population in Palestine (about 1—1.3 million Jews) to be explained" (p. 19).
  4. ^ Boyarin, Daniel, and Jonathan Boyarin. 2003. Diaspora: Generation and the Ground of Jewish Diaspora. p. 714 " is crucial to recognize that the Jewish conception of the Land of Israel is similar to the discourse of the Land of many (if not nearly all) "indigenous" peoples of the world. Somehow the Jews have managed to retain a sense of being rooted somewhere in the world through twenty centuries of exile from that someplace (organic metaphors are not out of place in this discourse, for they are used within the tradition itself)." p. 714.
  5. ^ Cohen, Robin. 1997. Global Diasporas: An Introduction. p. 24 London: UCL Press. "...although the word Babylon often connotes captivity and oppression, a rereading of the Babylonian period of exile can thus be shown to demonstrate the development of a new creative energy in a challenging, pluralistic context outside the natal homeland. When the Romans destroyed the Second Temple in AD 70, it was Babylon that remained as the nerve- and brain-centre for Jewish life and thought...the crushing of the revolt of the Judaeans against the Romans and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Roman general Titus in AD 70 precisely confirmed the catastrophic tradition. Once again, Jews had been unable to sustain a national homeland and were scattered to the far corners of the world" (p. 24).
  6. ^ Johnson, Paul A History of the Jews "The Bar Kochba Revolt," (HarperPerennial, 1987) pp. 158-161.: Paul Johnson analyzes Cassius Dio's Roman History: Epitome of Book LXIX para. 13-14 (Dio's passage cited separately) among other sources: "Even if Dio's figures are somewhat exaggerated, the casualties amongst the population and the destruction inflicted on the country would have been considerable. According to Jerome, many Jews were also sold into slavery, so many, indeed, that the price of Jewish slaves at the slave market in Hebron sank drastically to a level no greater than that for a horse. The economic structure of the country was largely destroyed. The entire spiritual and economic life of the Palestinian Jews moved to Galilee. Jerusalem was now turned into a Roman colony with the official name Colonia Aelia Capitolina (Aelia after Hadrian's family name: P. Aelius Hadrianus; Capitolina after Jupiter Capitolinus). The Jews were forbidden on pain of death to set foot in the new Roman city. Aelia thus became a completely pagan city, no doubt with the corresponding public buildings and temples...We certain that a statue of Hadrian was erected in the centre of Aelia, and this was tantamount in itself to a desecration of Jewish Jerusalem." p. 159.
  7. ^ Cassius Dio's Roman History: Epitome of Book LXIX para. 13-14: "13 At first the Romans took no account of them. Soon, however, all Judaea had been stirred up, and the Jews everywhere were showing signs of disturbance, were gathering together, and giving evidence of great hostility to the Romans, partly by secret and partly by overt acts; 2 many outside nations, too, were joining them through eagerness for gain, and the whole earth, one might almost say, was being stirred up over the matter. Then, indeed, Hadrian sent against them his best generals. First of these was Julius Severus, who was dispatched from Britain, where he was governor, against the Jews. 3 Severus did not venture to attack his opponents in the open at any one point, in view of their numbers and their desperation, but by intercepting small groups, thanks to the number of his soldiers and his under-officers, and by depriving them of food and shutting them up, he was able, rather slowly, to be sure, but with comparatively little danger, to crush, exhaust and exterminate them. Very few of them in fact survived. 14 1 Fifty of their most important outposts and nine hundred and eighty-five of their most famous villages were razed to the ground. Five hundred and eighty thousand men were slain in the various raids and battles, and the number of those that perished by famine, disease and fire was past finding out. 2 Thus nearly the whole of Judaea was made desolate, a result of which the people had had forewarning before the war. For the tomb of Solomon, which the Jews regard as an object of veneration, fell to pieces of itself and collapsed, and many wolves and hyenas rushed howling into their cities. 3 Many Romans, moreover, perished in this war. Therefore Hadrian in writing to the senate did not employ the opening phrase commonly affected by the emperors, 'If you and our children are in health, it is well; I and the legions are in health'" (para. 13-14).
  8. ^ Safran, William. 2005. The Jewish Diaspora in a Comparative and Theoretical Perspective. Israel Studies 10 (1): 36. "...diaspora referred to a very specific case—that of the exile of the Jews from the Holy Land and their dispersal throughout several parts of the globe. Diaspora [ galut] connoted deracination, legal disabilities, oppression, and an often painful adjustment to a hostland whose hospitality was unreliable and ephemeral. It also connoted the existence on foreign soil of an expatriate community that considered its presence to be transitory. Meanwhile, it developed a set of institutions, social patterns, and ethnonational and/or religious sym- bols that held it together. These included the language, religion, values, social norms, and narratives of the homeland. Gradually, this community adjusted to the hostland environment and became itself a center of cultural creation. All the while, however, it continued to cultivate the idea of return to the homeland." (p. 36).
  9. ^ Sheffer, Gabriel. 2005. Is the Jewish Diaspora Unique? Reflections on the Diaspora's Current Situation. Israel Studies 10 (1): p. 3-4. "...the Jewish nation, which from its very earliest days believed and claimed that it was the "chosen people," and hence unique. This attitude has further been buttressed by the equally traditional view, which is held not only by the Jews themselves, about the exceptional historical age of this diaspora, its singular traumatic experiences its singular ability to survive pogroms, exiles, and Holocaust, as well as its "special relations" with its ancient homeland, culminating in 1948 with the nation-state that the Jewish nation has established there... First, like many other members of established diasporas, the vast majority of Jews no longer regard themselves as being in Galut [exile] in their host countries.7 Perceptually, as well as actually, Jews permanently reside in host countries of their own free will, as a result of inertia, or as a result of problematic conditions prevailing in other hostlands, or in Israel. It means that the basic perception of many Jews about their existential situation in their hostlands has changed. Consequently, there is both a much greater self- and collective-legitimatization to refrain from making serious plans concerning "return" or actually "making Aliyah" [to emigrate, or "go up"] to Israel. This is one of the results of their wider, yet still rather problematic and sometimes painful acceptance by the societies and political systems in their host countries. It means that they, and to an extent their hosts, do not regard Jewish life within the framework of diasporic formations in these hostlands as something that they should be ashamed of, hide from others, or alter by returning to the old homeland" (p. 4).
  10. ^ Davies, William David; Finkelstein, Louis; Katz, Steven T. (1984-01-01). The Cambridge History of Judaism: Volume 4, The Late Roman-Rabbinic Period. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521772488. Although Dio's figure of 985 as the number of villages destroyed during the war seems hypberbolic, all Judaean villages, without exception, excavated thus far were razed following the Bar Kochba Revolt. This evidence supports the impression of total regional destruction following the war. Historical sources note the vast number of captives sold into slavery in Palestine and shipped abroad." ... "The Judaean Jewish community never recovered from the Bar Kochba war. In its wake, Jews no longer formed the majority in Palestine, and the Jewish center moved to the Galilee. Jews were also subjected to a series of religious edicts promulgated by Hadrian that were designed to uproot the nationalistic elements with the Judaean Jewish community, these proclamations remained in effect until Hadrian's death in 138. An additional, more lasting punitive measure taken by the Romans involved expunging Judaea from the provincial name, changing it from Provincia Judaea to Provincia Syria Palestina. Although such name changes occurred elsewhere, never before or after was a nation's name expunged as the result of rebellion. 


Americans or Usonians

Any opinions on this recent add that I reverted. I reverted and said, requires a chat on the talkpage so I am requesting other thoughts. I felt the term was not widely used or well known to be in the heading like that? Govindaharihari (talk) 04:26, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

I concur with the removal, as it's a very minor alternative name. Curiously, no alternative names are mentioned in the article at all, and there wasn't even a link to Names for United States citizens, which does cover Usonian. I added the link to the See Also section, but the article could probably use a brief mention of the fact that alternative names exist, both in English and other languages. - BilCat (talk) 12:10, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
To some, "Americans" might imply any and all people in the Americas. We should note that it is seldom used that way, probably in the lede. Names for United States citizens explains this, so I think a brief statement with a link to that would avoid some confusion. --A D Monroe III (talk) 16:38, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
I added a small paragraph to the lede about Americans=people from USA, not the Americas, per Names for United States citizens. --A D Monroe III (talk) 01:47, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

American diaspora[edit]

The number of Americans living aboard now (as of 2016) grew to 10 million and about 2 million descendants of US citizens worldwide, should be one of the world's largest citizenry diasporas. Although the largest ethnic diasporas are Chinese (54-58 million citizens from China, up to 100 million total ethnic Chinese) and Irish (80 million descendants), the number of American expats is higher than ever. Europe has between 4.5 to 5.5 million American expats, Mexico has 3 to 3.5 million-the highest of any country, Canada has one million with a history of American immigration, Australia 200,000 and Israel 200,000. (talk) 14:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)