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- 1 Vandalism
- 2 Spelling
- 3 Egyptian
- 4 Sanchuniathon
- 5 Reasons to link to Amen
- 6 Basic mistakes in the article
- 7 Amun/Amon in the Christian Bible
- 8 A picture speaks volumes - understanding the signs of the past.
- 9 In Berber Mythology
- 10 Moved from Horned God
- 11 Chronology
- 12 Amun among the Meroites
- 13 Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2015
- 14 What is the relationship between Amun and Atum?
You may care to do somthing about the "You are gay" and what not's laced into the document here. --22.214.171.124 02:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Just for grins, here are the results from a Google search to see which spelling is preferred:
- Amon Egypt* - 19,500
- Amun Egypt* - 12,600
- Ammon Egypt* - 27,300
So they are all pretty popular, but the current listing is the preferred one. Noel 03:28, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Not by Egyptologists; "Ammon" is absolutely not standard at all. The preferred spelling in that field (in English) is "Amun" or "Amon" (or even "Amen"), but not "Ammon." --Nefertum17 18:34, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The following user deleted (or even "Amen") from the previous statment (I've reinserted it). They made the following comment in the summary box, which I shall add here. Gareth Hughes 10:38, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- It's fine, but when you say 'amen', it sounds like the type of 'amen' you say in church. All in all, it's still a pretty good paragraph. 126.96.36.199
"Amen" in church is hebrew for something along the lines of "let it be so"
"Amun" is not hebrew
Amun's wife is "Amaunet" or "Amunet" so using "Ammon" would make the wife being "Amunet" somewhat less consistent Well, Amun, and Re A.K.A Ra somehow clashed and became AMUN-RA (Amun-Re)
- No, you have failed to spot the problem at hand. In egyptian, it is "AMN" and "R" which became "AMN-R". Most of the vowels and transliterations are entirely the invention of the modern world entirely for the convenience of writing in modern languages. Ammon is what the greeks called him, and so this constitutes one historical witness to the correct pronunciation/spelling. However, it is the greek rendereding, and so is not entirely accurate (e.g. Khshayārsha is rendered in greek as Xerxes). For various reasons, academics prefer to spell it Amun, but this is not based on any ancient witness to this spelling/pronunciation. --Victim of signature fascism | help remove biblecruft 17:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The Hebrew stonemasons worshiped the Apis bull. The Hebrew people were the Ammonites. The Apis bull is the god Amen-Ra. The Hebrew people worshiped the golden bull which is also known as Amen-Ra (Amun-Ra).
From the Catholic Encyclopedia -
The Ammonites were a race very closely allied to the Hebrews. One use of their name itself in the Bible indicates the ancient Hebrew belief of this near relationship, for they are called Bén`ámmî or "Son of my people", meaning that that race is regarded as descended from Israel's nearest relative. This play of words on the name Ammon did not arise from the name itself, but presupposes the belief in the kinship of Israel and Ammon.The name Ammon itself cannot be accepted as proof of this belief, for it is obscure in origin, derived perhaps from the name of a tribal deity. A strong proof of their common origin is found in the Ammonite language. No Ammonite inscription, it is true, has come down to us, but the Ammonite names that have been preserved belong to a dialect very nearly akin to the Hebrew; moreover, the close blood relationship of Moab and Ammon being admitted by all, the language of the Moabite Stone, almost Hebrew in form, is a strong witness to the racial affinity of Israel and Ammon. This linguistic argument vindicates the belief that Israel always entertained of his kinship with the Ammonites. The belief itself has found expression in an unmistakable manner in Genesis 19, where the origin of Ammon and his brother, Moab, is ascribed to Lot, the nephew of Abraham. This revolting narrative has usually been considered to give literal fact, but of late years it has been interpreted, e.g. by Father Lagrange, O.P., as recording a gross popular irony by which the Israelites expressed their loathing of the corrupt morals of the Moabites and Ammonites. It may be doubted, however, that such an irony would be directed against Lot himself. Other scholars see in the very depravity of these peoples a proof of the reality of the Biblical story of their incest origin. Ethnologists, interpreting the origin from the nephew of Abraham by the canons usually found true in their science, hold it as indicating that the Israelites are considered the older and more powerful tribe, while the Ammonites and Moabites are regarded as offshoots of the parent stem. The character of Genesis, which at times seems to preserve popular traditions rather than exact ethnology, is taken as a confirmation of this position. But it is not denied, at any rate, that the Hebrew tradition of the near kinship of Israel, Ammon, and Moab is correct. All three, forming together a single group, are classified as belonging to the Aramæan branch of the Semitic race.
Amun was directly referred to in Jeremiah 46
Jeremiah 46:25 
The Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, says: Behold, I will visit punishment upon Amon [the chief god of the sacred city, the capital of Upper Egypt] of No or Thebes, and upon Pharaoh and Egypt, with her gods and her kings--even Pharaoh and all those [Jews and others] who put their trust in [Pharaoh as a support against Babylon].
This is a direct reference to the god Amun (Amen) in the bible .
Isaiah 65:15-17 
15And you will leave your name to My chosen [to those who will use it] for a curse; and the Lord God will slay you, but He will call His servants by another name [as much greater than the former name as the name Israel was greater than the name Jacob].
16So [it shall be] that he who invokes a blessing on himself in the land shall do so by saying, May the God of truth and fidelity [the Amen] bless me; and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth and faithfulness to His promises [the Amen], because the former troubles are forgotten and because they are hidden from My eyes.
17For behold, I create [a]new heavens and a new earth. And the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
The following two verses are related to amen because they are referring to the god named mammon - also called Amen.
Here is the definition of 'mn (the West Semitic root of Amen and Mammon)
West Semitic, to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, have faith, believe. a. amen, from Hebrew mn, truly, certainly; b. Mammon, from Aramaic mmon, probably from Mishnaic Hebrew mmôn, probably from earlier *mamn (? “security, deposit”). Both a and b from Hebrew man, to be firm.
24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
13No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
8Are you better than No-amon [Thebes, capital of Upper Egypt], that dwelt by the rivers or canals, that had the waters round about her, whose rampart was a sea [the Nile] and water her wall?
I believe that is enough evidence to constitute a link to the word Amen from Amun.
- I still don't think this argument is going anywhere. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 23:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I have provided solid resources. It's that simple. The name of the god named Amen is different and used differently than the word amen. I have provided solid evidence. You have not provided evidence that proves otherwise. The hieroglyph for the word amen does not show the God in the depiction. Prove otherwise, otherwise it's relevant. Lucky (talk) 09:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Basic mistakes in the article
This article is full of mistakes. Aten's cult didn't decline in the 20th Dinasty, it had already disappeared by the end of the XVIIIth one, during the reign of Horemhab. There is no reference to its role during the XIX Dinasty, and so on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 23:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Amun/Amon in the Christian Bible
Has Amun/Amon ever been mentioned, really, in any translation/version of the Christian Bible?
A picture speaks volumes - understanding the signs of the past.
The rise and fall of great many symbols of power in the past were closely identified with the clockwork cycles of human life, the world, and the universe, some obvious as day and night, while other as ambiguous as the Great Year, which denotes precession of the twelve signs of the zodiac, an Astrological age, caused due to a wobble of the Earth's axis of rotation, with an estimated tilt of about 23.5 degrees to the plane of the Earth's orbit around the Sun. The axis moves in a cone shape through the zodiac belt with speed of about 2160 years per sign, making a complete revolution of the celestial North Pole in about 25,920 years. Even more hidden from immediate detection is the, so-called, Galactic cycle which represents the time it takes our solar system travel around the center of our Milky Way galaxy, and it measures in millions of years.
When one finds images of ancient gods with an epithet or depiction of a lion, bull, ram, or fish, for example, it is important to take into consideration that the symbolism employed was also an attribution to The Age the deity was identified with, thus The Sphinx were probably built during The Age of Leo, and Amun-Kamutef as the self-made Bull was reference to the following later Age of Taurus, the age of the golden calf, which in turn became an abomination as the new Age of Aries was trumpeted by the ram's horns, hence the addition of the ram's horns to the gods, and then again, as time march on, behold!, arrived the current Age of Pisces, the mighty fish that can feed many took over the solar throne.
In Berber Mythology
The article begins "Amun [...] was a God in Egyptian mythology and Berber Mythology", but everything that follows is exclusively from Egyptian mythology. Perhaps this should be made much clearer. Otherwise we'll have people mistakenly using this article to make spurious claims about Berber mythology. The Lesser Merlin (talk) 10:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what to do about this, as I don't know enough about Amun's relationship with the peoples west of the Nile (who are called "Libyans", not Berbers, in Egyptological sources, though they're generally believed to be akin to modern Berbers). I don't see why his worship among the Libyans should be given more attention than his worship among the Nubians, either. The Nubians, under Egyptian influence, syncretized one of their own gods with the Egyptian Amun, and I suspect that something similar happened with the Libyans. Perhaps I should remove the phrase "and Berber Mythology", and elsewhere in the lead mention that Amun was also worshipped in Libya and Nubia? A. Parrot (talk) 18:53, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Moved from Horned God
The following text was added to the Horned God article, as that article deals with the Wiccan concept rather than historical middle-eastern ones, I think the text would be better re-factored into this article, but don't have enough knowledge in this area to undertake the task properly. Thanks:
The Cyrenaican Greeks built temples for the Libyan god Amon instead of their original god Zeus. They later identified their supreme god Zeus with the Libyan Amon. Some of them continued worshipping Amon himself. Amon's cult was so widespread among the Greeks that even Alexander the Great decided to be declared as the son of Zeus in the Siwan temple by the Libyan priests of Amon.
Although the most modern sources ignored the existence of Amun in the Berber mythology, he was maybe the greatest ancient Berber god. He was honored by the Ancient Greeks in Cyrenaica, and was united with the Phoenician/Carthagian god Baal-hamon due to Libyan influence. Some depictions of the ram across North Africa belong to the lythic period which is situated between 9600 BC and 7500 BC.
The most famous Amun's temple in Ancient Libya was the temple at the oasis of Siwa. The name of the ancient Berber tribes: Garamantes and Nasamonians are believed by some scholars to be related to the name Amon.
In Awelimmiden Tuareg, the name Amanai is believed to have the meaning of "God". The Ancient Libyans may have worshipped the setting sun, which was impersonated by Amon, who was represented by the ram's horns.
In Carthage and North Africa Baal-hamon was especially associated with the ram and was worshiped also as Baʿal Qarnaim ("Lord of Two Horns") in an open-air sanctuary at Jebel Bu Kornein ("the two-horned hill") across the bay from Carthage.
- Thanks for placing the material on the talk page rather than dumping it in the article. The emphasis seems to be placing Amun as a deity the Ancient Egyptian absorbed from other peoples. There have also been recent editors that sought to place his origin in Nubia. As best I know the consensus of Egyptologists is that Amun is of Thebes, his main cult centre, or possibly originates from Hermopolis. Yt95 (talk) 08:45, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Writing an article about "Amun, 2500 BC to 500 BC" as if it was a single topic makes about as much sense as merging the articles on Hadad, Yahweh, Dionysus, God in Judaism and Jesus Christ without any regard to chronology. This article could well remain a single page, properly divided into historical stages, or alternatively, Amun-Ra could become a separate page (as in de-wiki's de:Amun vs. de:Amun-Re). --dab (𒁳) 14:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
- Except that Amun was limited to one region of the world (Egypt, Nubia, and Libya), whereas Hadad and the early form of Yahweh were in the Near East, Dionysus was in Greece and Rome, and Jesus Christ and the modern Jewish form of Yahweh spread across the world. And Jesus Christ and the modern Jewish god were worshipped in medieval and modern times, when the evidence that has survived to the present was exponentially greater. And there were radical, fundamental changes in theology from the largely nature-based polytheistic religions of Hadad and Dionysus to the hard monotheism of modern Judaism and the one-man-as-God theology of Christianity, whereas Amun's original nature, insofar as it can be discerned, was retained through all the elaborations and additions.
- The article is poorly organized; most of the articles on deities are. But I'm skeptical of an entirely chronological structure. Amun's role as a hidden, mysterious god was present throughout the history of his worship, as far as I know, and his role as king of the gods was present in the Middle Kingdom and may even be foreshadowed in the Pyramid Texts (Pyr. 1540). Of course, Amun's theology did evolve over time, and the article should indicate that, but that doesn't require that the whole article be split into historical stages. The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt by Richard H. Wilkinson divides the entry for each major god into sections for "Mythology", "Iconography", and "Worship", and sometimes, as in Amun's entry, "Mythology" has subsections for each of a deity's major roles and indicates when each of these aspects arose. The structure I proposed for Egyptian deity articles a while ago (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt/Religion work group#About the god pages) would work along similar lines.
- As for Amun-Ra, I don't believe there's a clear divide between Amun and Amun-Ra. The entry on "Amun and Amun-Re" in the Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt says that Amun-Ra was first mentioned in the Middle Kingdom, before the major theological transformations of the New Kingdom that gave Amun absolute supremacy. It also says, "The syncretism did not imply the absorption of one deity by the other, nor did it imply the creation of yet another god. Amun and Re still remained as separate hypostatic deities, but their syncretism was an expression of the unity of divine power." The Egyptians did not stop referring to Amun alone after the formation of Amun-Ra. The Kamutef form of Amun appears as both Amun-Kamutef and Amun-Ra-Kamutef. Late New Kingdom theology emphasized three gods, and sometimes four, as the ultimate expression of divine power: Amun and Ra, independent, alongside Ptah and sometimes Set. And the scattered local cults of Amun after 1000 BC, like the one at Siwa, were dedicated to local forms of Amun without Ra.
- This article could be divided if it grew to an unwieldy length. But this article doesn't come close to an unwieldy length, and neither would the two German articles even if they were merged. I can't read all the sources on Amun because many of them are in German, so I can't say for certain that a proper, summary-style article could not reach that point if it used all the information at hand. But it's more important to flesh this article out than to split it in two. A. Parrot (talk) 19:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
it was a simile. Still, for the geographical horizon of the Bronze Age, Egypt was a major empire and not a single "region". You may be right that the split is not advisable. I'll remove the split template. Well, but as you say, a lot of work is still needed in order to turn this into something useful. --dab (𒁳) 10:25, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, there was also a temple of Amun as far away as Macedonia (linked to Alexanders visit to Siwah?) and it's often overlooked that hymns to the Aten also reference Re. The A.Egyptians at that point in time didn't think he was restricted to one region or country (possibly inspired by Empire issues and points of unity amongst diverse peoples) Yt95 (talk) 16:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
- Some refs to support my assertions:
- “Chapter IV: The Spread of the Egyptian Faith. In the expansion of Egyptian religion a most important part was played by the god Ammon...His famous shrine at the oasis in the Libyan desert was resorted to by pilgrims from every part, including Greeks, who knew also another temple of his at Aphytis in the Pallene peninsula of Macedonia...” (Isis in the Ancient World”, R. E. Witt, John Hopkins University Press, p. 46, ISBN 0-8018-5642-6, see J. Gywn Griffiths review in Journal of Egyptian Archaeology)
- “During the New Kingdom, Amun-Re received the title of “king of the gods,” and the growth of the empire transformed him into a universal deity. By the twenty-fifth (Nubian dynasty), Amun-Re was even the chief god of the Nubian kingdom of Napata.” .” The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, Edited by Donald B. Redford, P. 19, ISBN 0-425-19096-X
- “The concept of a universal god as the religious counterpart of political imperialism originated in Heliopolis. The Pharaohs of the Eighteenth dynasty transcended not only political borders but also the mental boundaries of the Egyptian world. While ruling over a multinational empire which they deemed universal, they formed the concept of a universal deity as the creator and preserver of all….Breasted’s correlation of monotheism and imperialism echoes the political theology of Eusabius of Caesarea, who pointed out to Constantine the correspondence between terrestrial and celestial monarchy, that is, the Roman Empire and Christian monotheism. Akhenaton inherited the Heliopolitan concept of a universal god (whom we easily recognize as the god of the mysteries), but he turned a local cult into a general religion and gave it the character of an intolerant monotheism.” (Moses the Egyptian, Jan Assmann, pp. 152-153, ISBN 0-674-58739-1)
- "When they, therefore, address the supreme god, whom they believe to be the same as the Universe, as if he were invisible and concealed, and implore him to make himself visible and manifest to them, they use the word "Amoun"; so great, then, was the circumspection of the Egyptians in their wisdom touching all that had to do with the gods.” (Plutarch 9)
- Yt95 (talk) 14:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Amun among the Meroites
I think it should be mentioned in a section in the article about the huge role Amun played in the lives of the Kushites (Meroites). His name appears as a part of many royal names. I think it would add great information and be a strong improvement to the article. - A.Tamar Chabadi (talk) 04:34, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2015
|This edit request has been answered. Set the
I wonder, why the translation of the name Amun is not included in the text. In every other texts in the net it is mentioned: ¨The hidden one¨ ¨one who is hidden¨ There's also texts saying like: ¨One, whose nature is not known to any god¨.Could you add at least the basic translation ¨the hidden one¨ to the text.
- Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
What is the relationship between Amun and Atum?
- JaredMithrandir: They are not the same. At least as far back as the late Old Kingdom, Atum was the central deity of the creation myth from Heliopolis, in which he is the being who contained everything within himself, the "one who made himself into millions". He was closely connected with—and sometimes seemingly identical to—Ra, the sun god, whose emergence from the waters of chaos at the beginning of time was virtually synonymous with creation. Sometimes Ra was said to change form as he sailed through the sky during the day, so that he was Khepri in the morning, Ra in the middle of the day, and Atum in the evening. The idea here is that Atum, the first deity, is very old, and because Ra is born every sunrise and dies every sunset, in the evening he is old like Atum.
- Amun was the god of Thebes and only became important in the Middle Kingdom. His role in the creation of the world was never as well fleshed out as that of Atum, but New Kingdom hymns (from Thebes, unsurprisingly) treat him as the hidden power that lay behind all things and was the ultimate cause of creation. Although he was often syncretized with Ra as Amun-Ra, the relationship between the two was only defined, as far as I know, in those same New Kingdom hymns. There, Ra is the visible face of Amun the hidden power. A. Parrot (talk) 04:36, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
- "By Council, British Archaeological Association, Central Committee". The Archaeological Journal. Oxford University. 7: 8–16. 1850. Retrieved 2008-02-29.
- Karel van der Toorn (1999). "Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible". Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing: 28–32. Retrieved 2008-02-29. line feed character in
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- Darlow, Richard (2006). Moses in Ancient Egypt & the Hidden Story of the Bible. lulu.com. pp. 177–181.
- American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, 2000, retrieved 2008-02-29
- Oric Bates, The Eastern Libyans.
- Mohammed Chafik, revue Tifinagh...
- H. Basset, Les influences puniques chez les Berbères, pp 367-368
- Mohammed Chafik, Revue Tifinagh...
- Helene Hagan, The Shining Ones: An Etymological Essay on the Amazigh Roots of the Egyptian civilization, p. 42.
- James Hastings.