Talk:Anarchy

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The Title Of The Page[edit]

Anarchy should be replaced with Anarchism. Anarchy refers to a state of chaos or disorder (An = no, Archos = ruler), Anarchism refers to the ideologies of government and non-government of Bakunin, Bucharin, and more.MrSativa (talk) 14:35, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

United States[edit]

The article implies or states as if 'anarchy' does not mean lawlessness outside of the US. Which is rather ridiculous, I can tell as a European where 'anarchie' (Dutch and German) in public discourse refers to a state of lawlessness, this is not the case. In fact, didn't anarchy originate from Medieval England to describe a state of lawlessness? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goti1233 (talkcontribs) 12:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you're entirely right! I just added infomation on the economist Gustave de Molinari who first theorised the state monopoly on protection as outside free market anarchism and proposed market law. The editor Spylab (I don't know if that name implies censorship or intent at edit warring) deleted this sourced material as POV pushing without any explanation. I'm going to include it again.

Rothbardanswer (talk) 03:13, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The claim that anarchy has a different definition in the United States than it does in other countries is very dubious and does not belong in the lead section. The trivia about Gustave de Molinari does not belong in the lead section. Perhaps it can fit in one of the other sections, but there has to be legitimate reason for it to be there. The fact that a reference exists is not enough. I re-inserted the claim that anarchy "is a technical issue of economic science" but added "clarify" and "citation needed" tags because that statement is vague and not backed up by any references. It definitely should not be the first phrase that appears in the article. I agree that the current lead sentence is lacklustre, but replacing a lackluster sentence with a vague, POV-pushing sentence is not an improvement. Note that personal attacks are to be avoided on Wikipedia.Spylab (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
It is blatant POV-pushing, as you have been doing on numerous anarchism and market related articles. Gustave de Molinari was a laissez faire liberal with only the most tenuous connection to anarchism. He never considered himself an anarchist (would have probably thought the suggestion ridiculous) and no one else prominent (to my knowledge) had ever tied him to anarchism until Rothbard. Finx (talk) 02:47, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
It does come from Medieval Latin anarchia and originally Greek anarkhia but rather than lawlessness, it literally means "without archon" -- so the etymology implies "no rulers/leaders" more so than "no law". But I think in its contemporary usage it could mean either or both, depending on whether it's used just colloquially in place of "chaos" or to describe a (possibly highly ordered and organized) society. Etymology reference. Finx (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Anarchism sidebar[edit]

Why is it listed twice here? --66.190.69.246 (talk) 23:34, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

GA Nomination[edit]

How does everyone feel about this article being nominated for GA? I won't do so until those two "Citation Needed"'s have been fixed, or without the approval of you guys. TotallyNotEtreo 08:43, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Albania[edit]

I'm not really a wikipedia expert (so sorry in advance). After somehow stumbling onto this page, I ended up skimming the article. The section on Albania stood out and I want to call everyone's attention to it. It needs revision. Here's the quote:

"n 1997 in Albania, Anarchy was everywhere. Everybody had guns and able to kill without anyone saying anything about it. Guns were everywhere and an AK-47 could be bought for just 1000 lek (10 dollars). There were gangs everywhere, especially in South Albania where the police did not have any power and you could find about 3-4 gangs in every city. Anarchy in Albania started because people lost their money in Pyramids Firms. In cities like Gramsh, military bases contained about 50,000 weapons with a population of only 10,000 or in Polican (there was the Weapon's Factory) there were about 100,000 weapons for a population of only 8,000."

Plus there's no citation. I understand that there's a larger article on it, but it should still have some sort of citation on the "Anarchy" page. Finally, the wording sounds weird - especially the bit about guns (don't worry, I don't have a political axe to grind). I mean, this may all be true. The wording as it stands just sounds off to me. I'm not sure what everyone else thinks.

- anonymous peruser - 4/6/2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.161.40 (talk) 23:34, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 15:31, 9 July 2014 (UTC)



AnarchyList of stateless societies – This page seems to be a summary of anarchism (which has its own, appropriately titled article) and a list of societies that have/had no state. The material on anarchism should be removed and the list renamed to "List of stateless societies" or something of the like. --Relisted. Armbrust The Homunculus 11:34, 8 July 2014 (UTC) -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 16:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

  • Split the list off into its own article, then determine what needs to merge to anarchism and elsewhere. After that, rebuild this article and rename it to state of anarchy. Whereupon this title becomes the disambiguation page (move the dab page here) -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:12, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: The list is too small to have enough WP:Notability to stand on its own. Meanwhile, the major part of this article is about anarchy itself. Deleting those material will be a severe harm to this article, and as such material is the major part of this article, this title move would be impractical.Forbidden User (talk) 08:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Forbidden User, anarchy itself? You mean, stateless societies? If so, it sounds like we're actually in agreement. -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 14:43, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
MisterDub, your request is moving to List of stateless societies, not Stateless societies. With "List" only brief information about anarchy would be left, and that means mass cutting. By the way, anarchy is a kind of system, or a concept, while stateless societies describes societies adopting anarchy. Do not mix up the two. Even anarchy(a system; a concept) and anarchism (a political philosophy that advocates anarchy) are different. There is quite a lot of information which is not describing any stateless societies, and thus moving/merging to "Stateless societies" does not work either.Forbidden User (talk) 16:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Additional information: I also found the articles Stateless society and Stateless nation, of which the former appears to be on the same topic as this. The information on this article probably ought to be transferred to Stateless society and Anarchy redirected there. -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 15:52, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Then you should propose a merger. I want to add that by the comprehensiveness and relevancy of the three articles, referenced information in Stateless society can be merged to here and Stateless society redirects here, leaving Stateless nation alone.Forbidden User (talk) 16:49, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
You are correct. Had I known about the other article before, I would have proposed this as a merger. What, do you think, would be the best way to proceed? Let the move request stand? Or convert it to a merge request? -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 21:00, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
I guess opening a separate section called "Merger proposal" and propose your thought on merging would be best. This move request can be closed as not moved.Forbidden User (talk) 09:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was not merged. Forbidden User (talk) 16:42, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I propose that Anarchy be merged into Stateless society. I think a merger would avoid the confusion this article creates by alternating between two very different meanings of the term anarchy, which historically referred to the "chaos and disorder" arising from a stateless society, but was later adopted by anarchists to refer to a specific type of stateless society with spontaneous order. The information regarding anarchism already has a proper place in Anarchism and can be dropped entirely, while the brief descriptions and list of stateless societies would be better suited for Stateless society, to which Anarchy can redirect. Or perhaps it would be better to make this a WP:DABPAGE listing both Anarchism and Stateless society as possible destinations (an IP user suggested titling the DABPAGE State of anarchy). -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 16:25, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Anarchy should not redirect to "stateless society", since a state of anarchy can exist in zones where governmental control has broken down, this does not mean that the society is governmentless. They are separate topics. If you look at the Watts Riots, clearly a state of anarchy ensued, but the society was not stateless. Anarchy/state of anarchy is a more general subject that stateless society. Just split off the anarchism and stateless society material to their respective articles. What remains can be rebuilt to cover the more general topic "state of anarchy". WP:Summary style short sections on anarchism and stateless society can lead to those topics with {{main}} section hatnotes. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 06:17, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Anarchy is more concise than state of anarchy (and even more general). Per view above, redirecting "anarchy" to "stateless society" or else is not the right thing to do.
Meanwhile, this article informs what anarchy is, while anarchism informs a philosophy that anarchy is the best system, with information about the effects and influence of anarchy, etc... not much about what anarchy is. So we'd better leave them as separate articles. As anarchism is closely related to anarchy, it should be given WP:Due weight here, and I'm fine with the current proportion. By the way, there are {{main}} tags you mentioned already. Examples are necessary for explaining what anarchy is, though the proportion can be discussed. This article is for general information on anarchy (which would contain some about anarchism and stateless societies), and readers can get the gist through the current content. I think the current issue is the proportion only.
MisterDub, if this article is merged to stateless society, then all the information about anarchism, etc, would go there too, which is inappropriate for me. If you have to merge the two articles, merging "stateless societies" to here would be a better idea, though I'm not really for it.Forbidden User (talk) 09:39, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose "Stateless society" has specific historical uses. Redirecting people there from anarchy whicih has two different meanings is unnecessary and confusing to readers. Bad idea. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 13:50, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose - While there is some overlap, these two topics are not an identity. I agree that splitting off the anarchism and stateless society material to their respective articles should fix any problem. Meclee (talk) 16:59, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Well, briefer sections for the two subjects are more desirable here. Why don't we open a new section about the proposed split and take care of the merger here? For me it's an oppose.Forbidden User (talk) 17:15, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

MisterDub: If you do not propose any new arguments, I shall close this proposal as not merged.Forbidden User (talk) 13:35, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Forbidden User, it is quite clear that consensus is against a merger. Feel free to close. -- MisterDub (talk | contribs) 15:59, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.


Anarchy[edit]

Social studies.

Flash309 (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2014 (UTC)