Talk:Angela Merkel

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Former good article nominee Angela Merkel was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
December 6, 2005 Peer review Reviewed
September 29, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee
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References messed up[edit]

The article claims: "ranked as the world's second most powerful person by Forbes magazine in 2013, the highest ranking ever achieved by a woman; she is now ranked fifth." The reference, however, does not support the claim (the reference is not even from forbes). This should be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.28.107.243 (talk) 13:50, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Moved here from article[edit]

Notable facts[edit]

  • In her office Merkel has a picture of the German-born Russian Empress Catherine the Great, who is described by Merkel as "a strong woman".[1]
  • In July 2006, during the G8 Summit proceedings at Konstantinovsky Palace, United States President Bush strode up behind Merkel and clasped his hands upon her shoulders in a massage-like way. Bush's action startled Merkel, causing her to flail her arms. The awkward exchange became a popular viral video on YouTube[2]
  • At the 2006 WEF (World economic Forum) in Davos, Switzerland the newly elected Merkel was dubbed "Queen of Davos" by the other attendees and subsequently the World's media.
  • On the 8 June 2006, Merkel launched her video podcast via the Bundeskanzlerin website, making her the first head of government to launch a regular video podcast.[3]

References

Discussion of NSA Cell Phone Bugging Scandal and Germany TOR network initiative ?[edit]

First chancellor from former GDR[edit]

A few months ago I amended the line saying she's the first female chancellor to add that she's also the first chancellor from the former East Germany. This was removed a few weeks back by User:Tadeusz Nowak with the edit summary of "undue emphasis on GDR in first paragraph". Since I remember this issue has come up before, I thought it would be better to open a discussion here. What do people think - does mentioning her GDR background in the first paragraph along with her gender constitute "undue emphasis"? Personally, I don't think so at all since both are historic firsts, but I'd be interested to hear what the consensus is. aoxiang翱翔(user)(talk) 14:39, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

There may be some subtleties of German politics that I'm not aware of, but this seems rather innocuous to me; neither undue weight nor of such overwhelming importance as to require inclusion in the lead. (I do think it belongs in the main text, possibly more prominently than the current "Comparisons" section. Somewhat analogous cases might be Woodrow Wilson (first U.S. president from the South since the Civil War, ~50 years) mentioned in the article but not the lead; or John Stuart (first Scottish prime minister of the UK, ~40 or 55 years, depending on where you start) included in the lead - prominently when you consider the entire lead is only two lines. By comparison, Merkel's election after 15 years of (re)union seems like a short time span to be considered a truly historic first. 2600:1006:B14D:6435:49ED:EC61:DA65:BDC (talk) 21:52, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
I agree that it definitely belongs at least in the main text, probably more prominently. Personally, I think that if we mention in the lead that she's the first female chancellor, it's hard to see why we shouldn't also mention that she's the first former East German one - both are historic firsts of her chancellorship and of comparable importance to women and former East Germans respectively. I agree that this isn't undue weight, either on her gender or her GDR origins.
Could I clarify what you mean in your last line, though - are you saying it's less of a historic first because it took only 15 years? If so, I think the short time span actually makes it more notable - it's especially remarkable that she was elected so soon after reunification - and I think the first election of a former East German as chancellor since reunification would have been a historical milestone regardless of when it had occurred. What do you think? aoxiang翱翔(user)(talk) 17:38, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
I think Boson's comment below is a clearer statement of what I had in mind with my comment about the much shorter time frame. 2600:1006:B14D:6435:B945:D20A:9451:85D (talk) 19:02, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I've replied below. aoxiang翱翔(user)(talk) 17:56, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
At least the way it is worded may give undue emphasis to the attribute "first". Only two chancellors were elected after German re-unification and the chancellor has to be a German citizen, so it's a bit like tossing a coin twice and saying how notable it is that the second toss was the first time it came up heads (or tails). --Boson (talk) 18:29, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
According to the DE Wikipedia, das Merkel is the 1st chancellor with a degree in natural sciences. So? None of this (woman, GDR, physicist) seems to be discussed these days. Was it ever? Is it important? Does it withstand the "10 year test"? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:58, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't think that's comparable. Merkel being a woman and from the former GDR have personal significance to Merkel's political career and historical significance to Germany in a way that her being a physicist does not. In 10 years it's likely that Merkel's election will still be seen as a milestone in gender equality and German reunification, but I doubt it was ever seen as a "milestone for physicists" because physicists just aren't a distinct political or social demographic. And I think it's quite clear that both Merkel's gender and her GDR origins have been discussed extensively since 2000. aoxiang翱翔(user)(talk) 17:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I see what you mean; it's true that there have only been two chancellors since reunification. However, I don't think that analogy is quite applicable. The election of chancellors isn't as random as tossing a coin, and if we accept that East and West Germans didn't have an equal chance of being elected in 2005 (which I think would be difficult to reject, considering this was still an issue long after Merkel had established herself), I think we have to see this as a historical milestone rather than just a coin that could have fallen either way. While it may sound odd to note that someone is the first among two, I'm having trouble thinking of a better way to describe this historical milestone, which I think is significant enough both to Merkel herself and to Germany as a whole to justify inclusion in the lead. What do you think? aoxiang翱翔(user)(talk) 17:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I think what this is actually trying to state as remarkable is that Merkel became leader of the CDU and chancellor despite having been raised in the GDR, with the emphasis on "despite", suggesting that growing up in East Germany would have made it very unlikely that she would be chosen to run for such office, or be elected -- not because it had never happened before (as "first" would suggest) but because people could not be expected to vote for an "Ossi" (for unstated reasons) so soon after re-unification (the opposite of what "first" implies). I wouldn't, personally, put it in the lead, though I would have no great objection, but I think we would need sources that make statements justifying a word like "despite". I couldn't, offhand, find anything really suitable in Langguth's biography. --Boson (talk) 00:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

The fact that she formerly lived in the GDR (although born in the Federal Republic of Germany) is already duly addressed in the article. Pointing it out in the first paragraph, as if this is the most important thing one could say about her, gives it undue weight, and seems to be POV and insinuating as well, using a terminology popular with American minorities ("first black president") and insinuating that people who at some point found themselves in the GDR find themselves in a similar position. Also, she is by no means the first chancellor from the area of the former GDR, which would be what really matters. In German or indeed European politics, one does not use this excessive first this or first that terminology to the same degree as the US. There are a lot of possible "firsts" that could be mentioned, probably a dozen of them equally relevant, but this is really trivial stuff, and especially in the first paragraph (the fact that Germany has only elected 2(!) new chancellors since 1990 also adds to how ridiculous it is to emphasize this to such as degree). She may be the first chancellor who is afraid of dogs as well, or the first chancellor who likes to dress in green, or the first physical chemist chancellor. She is even the first chancellor born in 1954! Tadeusz Nowak (talk) 01:11, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Angela Merkel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

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