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- 1 Biography assessment rating comment
- 2 Comment from 126.96.36.199
- 3 Establishing Facts in an Encyclopedia Entry
- 4 Who complained to the governor?
- 5 "Pyrates" does not say any of that.
- 6 Added her to Disappeared People
- 7 Year of death
- 8 Naked before the court?
- 9 Anne bonny qestions
- 10 Mary Read Inconsistency
- 11 Bonny's Frustration with Rackham
- 12 A Tattered Flag
Biography assessment rating comment
Comment from 188.8.131.52
Again, the beginning two paragraphs are essentially correct. As for the final paragraph, there are no “official records” of any kind in regard to Anne Bonny, save a trial transcript from Jamaica. Her name is mentioned in a few letters from the Royal Governor Woodes Rogers of the Bahamas, and in a mostly fictional work entitled “A General History of the Pirates.” The reader will notice in nearly all “biographies” of Anne Bonny that supporting documentation of facts is rarely provided. But rather, assertions of authenticity are made in reference of such documents, without the writer actually providing them, save modern reference works that in themselves provide no historical documentation of factual evidence. -- Originally posted to article by 184.108.40.206 (talk · contribs) at 02:34, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
no mention of her having lived in Dundee in earlier life?
To characterize Defoe's "A General History" as a "mostly fictional work" is an inaccurate assessement. The vast majority of Defoe's accounts in the GH have been proven generally accurate by subsequent research. Given the absence of official records and correspondence regarding Bonny, any information above and beyond that which has been provided by Defoe should be regarded with suspicion.
- I agree and disagree, here. DeFoe's book is certainly a compendium and compilation; it mimics a work of non-fiction very effectively. Parts of it follow newspaper accounts closely. However, other parts describe people and events that have been invented by the author. (DeFoe invented several characters, events, and details for thematic or narrative effect.) Our problem as present-day readers is that it wasn't 18th century literary practice to explain to the reader that a text was a mixture of reportage and invention. Manuel Schonhorn's extensive scholarly introduction to the 1999 Dover Press edition is essential reading. (This was originally published in 1972; Schonhorn updated the introduction and bibliography for the Dover edition of 1999.) --Galliaz 10:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Establishing Facts in an Encyclopedia Entry
One other important thing: I also think there's a big problem with the way the recent History Channel documentary is being used as a source to substantiate information in the entry. I believe the entry should actually list who actually provided the information that's cited from the documentary: did the "talking head" from the documentary provide a source for their information, or were they speculating on camera? Have they written an article or book that we can cite in the entry? Most importantly, could a researcher check the speaker's sources in order to independently verify what they have said? --Galliaz 13:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
- I can't believe a History Channel documentary is even cited at all. If the statements made there are well-founded, then they're probably repeating something in published sources, which ought to be cited instead. But I don't think the History Channel documentaries, in themselves, have high enough of a reputation to earn citation in an encyclopedia. In fact, I think they're awful, and routinely sacrifice accuracy to entertainment. But that's my opinion. 220.127.116.11 19:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- But History Channel rarely, if ever, actually cites its sources. The trail of information stops at them. While anything on History Channel is likely to be well researched, without them citing their sources, they cannot be cited by Wikipedia. Citing History Channel about pirates holds the same scholarly weight as citing someone who says "I'm 400 years old. I am my source." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 10:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Who complained to the governor?
Section "Marriage and Later Affair With a Pirate" says "He complained to the governor...". Who complained - Rackham or James Bonny ? Why would he complain to the Governor ? Jay 01:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Seems rather odd to me that either James Bonny or Jack Rackham would complain, as both were likely members of the Brethren of the Coast. A pirate complaining to a governor is just as likely to get captured as the pirate they're complaining about. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 10:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
"Pyrates" does not say any of that.
Captain Charles Johnson's work, A General History of the Pyrates, needs to be reread. He never says that Anne Bonny walked in on Mary Read while dressing. He says that Bonny was attracted to Read, assuming Read to be a man, and therefore Bonny told Read that she was a woman. Read knew immediately why Bonny was telling her this and so knew that her own secret could not be kept. Therefore, Read then told Bonny that she herself was also a woman. This is how the two women told their secrets to each other. However, Calico Jack was upset by the close relationship between his lover, Bonny, and Read, whom he still assumed to be a man. So, Bonny told Jack that Read was indeed a woman in order to quell his jealousy.
Bonny, known to be a man, was attracted to Read, also known to be man. So, Bonny tells Read that Bonny is a woman, hoping to attract Read, still thought of as a man, into an affair. Read knows that an affair is not possible since she is also a woman and tells Bonny this. They then began a friendship as co-conspiritors. Then, in order to defend her friendship with Read to Rackham, Bonny tells Rackham the truth about Read.
It's confusing but actually clearly laid out in Pyrates.
--Bt1159 19:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Added her to Disappeared People
I added Anne Bonny to “Disappeared People” because she disappeared from all record with no traces. So she belongs to Category of Disappeared People. I added her awhile back to this category but someone deleted it for no reason. --James 01:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Year of death
A recent edit added Anne Bonny's year and place of death with a source. But how is it known what year she died if she was supposed to have disappeared? Something is amiss, either with the article or the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. — blobglob talk 22:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- After doing some searching, I've found a few sites referring to the 1782 date and South Carolina as where she died. However, they all seem to have things similar to "some records imply", and so on, without saying anything about what these records were. The article needs to be adjusted somehow, as it's not good to have information about her death following straight after describing her disappearance with nothing in-between. Perhaps the year/place of death should be removed unless a reliable source about the rest of her life is found? — blobglob talk 23:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- The ODNB says: "... Bonny and Read were tried by the same court on 28 November and were also found guilty and condemned to death. However, they revealed that they were both pregnant and were reprieved. Mary Read died in gaol and was buried on 28 April 1721. Evidence provided by the descendants of Anne Bonny suggests that her father managed to secure her release from gaol and bring her back to Charles Town, South Carolina, where she gave birth to Rackam's second child. On 21 December 1721 she married a local man, Joseph Burleigh, and they had eight children. She died in South Carolina, a respectable woman, at the age of eighty-four and was buried on 25 April 1782. "
- The sources are given as --- C. Johnson, A general history of the robberies and murders of the most notorious pyrates (1724) · The tryals of Captain John Rackam and other pirates, PRO, CO 137/14 [transcript of trial printed in Jamaica by Robert Baldwin, 1721] · The Boston Gazette (10–17 Dec 1720) · D. Cordingly, Life among the pirates: the romance and the reality (1995) · M. Rediker, ‘Liberty beneath the Jolly Roger’, Iron men, wooden women, gender and seafaring in the Atlantic world, 1700–1920, ed. M. Creighton and L. Norling (1996), 1–33 --- which does not explain the source of the marriage and burial dates, unless we are to assume that these are publicly accessible records in S. Carolina. "Evidence provided by the descendants" is also a telling phrase, since there is no note in ODNB for checking this ??is it in Cordingly or Rediker?? --mervyn 13:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hmm. If there is a sort of weaselly line like "evidence provided by descendants" in there, even if there is a citation, why is the death date being given as fact?Staszu13 (talk) 23:52, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I have just removed the source because it wasn't pointing to the relevant clause, and I don't have access to it to understand what exactly it says and where. Someone should fix this regarding the death date. —Ynhockey (Talk) 12:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Naked before the court?
"He complained to the governor, who brought her before the court, naked, and sentenced her to be flogged and to return to her legal husband. Anne Bonny and Rackham instead eloped."
Anne bonny qestions
Anne bonny Qestions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Anne bonny qestions 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 21:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Mary Read Inconsistency
In this article it says Anne Bonny's and Mary Read's genders were known from the start. However, in Read's article it clearly states several times that she was dressed as a man. Anne never dressed as a man, but Mary very much did. Sailorknightwing (talk) 01:17, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
There is no question as to whether or not Anne Bonny dressed as a man. She did. If she didn't, there would have been no awkward moment between Read and Bonny. Also (and I'm quoting from The Life of Anne Bonny chapter in the second edition of A General History of the Pyrates) "...so that she consented to elope from him, and go to Sea with Rackam in Men's Cloaths". So I'd like to contest the assertion that "Bonny did not disguise herself as a man aboard the Revenge as is often claimed." Blind Donkey (talk) 06:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blind Donkey (talk • contribs) 05:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Bonny's Frustration with Rackham
I added the following comment on the talk page for "Calico Jack" Rackham. It really should have been here, I suppose. -- What happened to one of the most colorful vignettes in the pirate canon - that of the quick-tempered Bonny's becoming so incensed with the inebriated (or hung-over) Rackham and his male crew and guests for cravenly leaving the defense of the vessel to her and Mary Read, that she emptied two pistols blindly into the hold where they had fled? (This, during the action against Barnet). Is this just an unverified romanticisation? If so, it's a real shame. D.Helber (talk) 14:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
- It was Mary Read, not Bonny, who fired her pistols into the hold, killing one fellow pirate and wounding others, according to Charles Johnson's General History of the Pyrates (pgs 161-62 of the original 1724 edition). I don't know if the story appears in the trial transcript, though I'm told the transcript mostly agrees with Johnson's version.
- Of course, Bonny was frustrated with Rackham, as demonstrated by her caustic comment to him after the trial that "if he had fought like a Man, he need not have been hang'd like a Dog." Pirate Dan (talk) 18:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)