Talk:Apache HTTP Server
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Apache HTTP Server article.|
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||This article may be too technical for most readers to understand. (September 2010)|
- 1 Suggested changes from ITEC544 class (USC)
- 2 Performance claims
- 3 Redirect from Httpd
- 4 Criticism for lack of GUI tools
- 5 New format of article
- 6 SVN
- 7 Licensing
- 8 On Portal:Free software, Apache is now the featured article
- 9 History of the name "Apache"
- 10 Licensing Quotation
- 11 Competition
- 12 .htaccess
- 13 No real information
- 14 Market share
- 15 Mobile Web Server (Symbian OS)
- 16 The majority of web servers using Apache run [Linux]
- 17 Readability for nontechnical users
- 18 About apache's origins
- 19 Poorly written sentence about name
- 20 Main design goal
- 21 Version history?
- 22 AFD Headsup: Apache Rivet
- 23 Big AFD headsup! All articles about apache modules, except list of apache modules
Suggested changes from ITEC544 class (USC)
BY: Michael Quinzi and Michael Schwarzbauer, 11/20/12
1. The article should mention something about the Apache HTTP Server Project. We found numerous sources discussing this project. From these sources, we gathered that “The Apache HTTP Server Project is a collaborative software development effort aimed at creating a robust, commercial-grade, feature-rich and freely-available source code implementation of an HTTP (Web) server. The project is jointly managed by a group of volunteers located around the world, using the Internet and the Web to communicate, plan, and develop the server and its related documentation. This project is part of the Apache Software Foundation. In addition, hundreds of users have contributed ideas, code, and documentation to the project.” We felt that this was interesting and mentioned enough, that it should be included in the article.
Source: Netcraft. (n.d.). About the Apache HTTP Server Project - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Welcome! - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html Backup sources: The Apache HTTP Server Open Source Project on Ohloh. (n.d.). Ohloh, the open source network. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.ohloh.net/p/apache ChapterÂ 4.Â The Apache HTTP Server. (n.d.). Fedora Documentation. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/13/html/Managing_Confined_Services/chap-Managing_Confined_Services-The_Apache_HTTP_Server.html
2. The article should mention that Apache is generally recognized as the world's most popular Web server. This was the consensus amongst most of our resources, so it should definitely be mentioned on the page, because we felt that it is a key identifier for their company. Articles we have read mention that the Apache Web Server “represents an open-source web server platform lying in the basis of most of the websites we see today on the World Wide Web.”
Source: Information about the Apache Web Server. (n.d.). Web Hosting Services, VPS Servers and Domain Names by NTC Hosting. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.ntchosting.com/apache-web-server.html Backup sources: Welcome! - The Apache HTTP Server Project. (n.d.). Welcome! - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Retrieved November 20, 2012, from httpd.apache.org/ Mitchell, B. (n.d.). What Is The Apache Web Server?. Networking - Computer and Wireless Networking Basics - Home Networks Tutorials. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/webserver Apache Server Definition. (n.d.). Module for hosting (mod_hosting) for apache 2 servers. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.modulehosting.com/apache.html
3. The article should put much more emphasis on the fact that the Apache web server is compatible with a multitude of web platforms and operating systems. This is important because it is one the main reasons that it is so popular. It was also common for many of our resources to mention the fact that Apache is a “cross-platform web server.”
Source: Information about the Apache Web Server. (n.d.). Web Hosting Services, VPS Servers and Domain Names by NTC Hosting. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.ntchosting.com/apache-web-server.html Backup sources: Netcraft. (n.d.). About the Apache HTTP Server Project - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Welcome! - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html Mitchell, B. (n.d.). What Is The Apache Web Server?. Networking - Computer and Wireless Networking Basics - Home Networks Tutorials. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://compnetworking.about.com/cs/webserver
4. The article should emphasize that Apache Software is free, and the fact that they promote various free and open source advanced Web technologies, is a key factor in why they have the popularity and success that they do. Several sources mention the idea that “because the source code is freely available, anyone can adapt the server for specific needs, and there is a large public library of Apache add-ons.” It was also mentioned in another article that “The open source software "movement" has received enormous attention in the last several years. It is often characterized as a fundamentally new way to develop software that poses a serious challenge to the commercial software businesses that dominate most software markets today.” Many other sources confirmed this knowledge.
Source: What is Apache Web server? - A Word Definition From the Webopedia Computer Dictionary. (n.d.). Webopedia: Online Computer Dictionary for Computer and Internet Terms and Definitions. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/Apache_ Web_server.html Mockus, A., Fielding, R. T., & Herbsleb, J. (n.d.). A Case Study of Open Source Software Development: The Apache Server .ifipwg213.org/system/files/mockusapache.pdf. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from ifipwg213.org/system/files/mockusapache.p Backup sources: Welcome to The Apache Software Foundation!. (n.d.). Welcome to The Apache Software Foundation!. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://www.apache.org/
5. The article should discuss the future of Apache and where they are headed. We felt this was another way to improve the article. We believe that people like to know what a company is trying to accomplish, and that this will give them a better understanding for what Apache is all about. When researching the future plans of Apache, the most common things we found that they are trying to do are:
• Continue to be an "open source" no-charge-for-use HTTP server • Keep up with advances in HTTP protocol and web developments in general • Collect suggestions for fixes/improvements from its users • Respond to needs of large volume providers as well as occasional users
Source: FAQ - Httpd Wiki. (n.d.). FrontPage - General Wiki. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/FAQ#What_are_t he_future_plans_for_Apache_httpd.3F Backup sources: Netcraft. (n.d.). About the Apache HTTP Server Project - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Welcome! - The Apache HTTP Server Project. Retrieved November 12, 2012, from http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panthers8952 (talk • contribs) 15:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
From the article:
- "It has since evolved to rival (and probably surpass) any other Unix based HTTP server in terms of functionality and speed."
Even though it does not say straight out that Apache is the fastest HTTP server for Unix, one gets that impression. There are other HTTP server projects for Unix with main focus on speed. When I think of Apache I think about its large feature set. Does this sentence ought to be rewritten a bit? --Gosub 13:12, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
- I share your perspective. The speed claim is misleading. It depends on the configuration, the operation being performed, details of the build, etc. There are other servers which have better performance when handling static pages, for example. Apache has fine performance, but it is distinguished by its impressive featureset.
- I changed the line to:
- "It has since evolved to rival other Unix based HTTP servers in terms of functionality and performance."
- If we want to claim Apache surpasses something, we need to define what that means and provide obvious proof. However, this really is not the point of the article (in my view) and it seems to stray into NPOV territory. --Vector4F 05:20, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
Redirect from Httpd
- On linux systems the http server is known as the http daemon (ie resident program). It is usually apache. Hence you would use httpd to start apache, and it is reasonable (though not essential) for that page to redirect here. Hope that helps. --Mat-C 03:13, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Criticism for lack of GUI tools
I've removed "has been criticized for its lack of GUI tools to aid in its configuration" as several GUIs are now available, of which some are listed at http://gui.apache.org/. Considering that some of these GUIs are most excellent and useable software, and that if you add to this list all the ISP management software such as 42go, Apache could be considered to be very well supported GUI wise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Karderio (talk • contribs) 15:10, January 16, 2005
- sorry: The link to the apache GUIs is not working. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs) 13:30, September 9, 2005
New format of article
I have organized the article into simple sections, which I derived entirely from the existing content. I believe each of these can be modified and expanded. Specifically, I want to take a crack at adding more information on modules, the ways in which Apache is commonly used (including popular combos like Apache/Tomcat), and a reworking of the history section. Commentary on these changes is welcome. Vector4F 03:59, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
There is already a link to the SVN (subversion) repository in the external links however would it be good to add the "category:Projects using Subversion" to help add a bit more interlinking and promote the increased use of SVN over CVS for version control in large and successful projects?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Polymorp (talk • contribs) 23:52, July 19, 2005
I vaguely remember hearing about some sort of licensing dispute- doesn't OpenBSD maintain its own fork, or something? --220.127.116.11 22:01, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
- Kinda, they don't call it a fork, or else they'd get in trouble. It's basically a fork though. It's got security patches in there, but no feature development beyond the chroot they use. 18.104.22.168 23:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
On Portal:Free software, Apache is now the featured article
History of the name "Apache"
A quick check on The Wayback Machine shows that as at 1997-04-15T05:40:31 the Apache website's Info page stated that the name of the project was chosen because "The Apache group was formed around a number of people who provided patch files that had been written for NCSA httpd 1.3. The result after combining them was A PAtCHy server." I remember reading this on the website earlier as well (around 1995 / 1996). See http://web.archive.org/web/19970415054031/www.apache.org/info.html.
Doesn't this show that this was more than just "widespread interpretation", but was in fact the official source of the name at the time?
It's getting hard to re-write history what with everything being logged these days :) - Bren Zen
http://www.apacheweek.com/issues/96-04-04 Of course it was the official version. He came clean in 2007. Every pre-2000 source agrees that it was "A PAtCHy" server. If they want to rededicate it that is one thing, but re-writing history is not Wikipedia's role (and generally distasteful). Primacy matters for sources and the accepted source should be the first published source by the authoritative author: http://web.archive.org/web/19961028122409/www.apache.org/docs/FAQ.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
- A 2000 interview by Linux Magazine http://web.archive.org/web/20000711011824/http://www.linux-mag.com/2000-04/behlendorf_02.html quotes Brian Behlendorf as saying: The name literally came out of the blue. I wish I could say that it was something fantastic, but it was out of the blue. I put it on a page and then a few months later when this project started, I pointed people to this page and said: "Hey, what do you think of that idea?" ... Someone said they liked the name and that it was a really good pun. And I was like, "A pun? What do you mean?" He said, "Well, we're building a server out of a bunch of software patches, right? So it's a patchy Web server." I went, "Oh, all right." ... When I thought of the name, no. It just sort of connoted: "Take no prisoners. Be kind of aggressive and kick some ass." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 13:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
I found the ciation needed for the big quotation under "License" The quote comes from Free Software Foundation comments page http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html and was posted on the 18th of Feb 2004 according to the Apache Software Foundation http://www.apache.org/licenses/GPL-compatibility.html If somebody could add the citation and remove the tag that would be great, since I don't know how to do it + don't have the time to figure out at the moment. --Davidkazuhiro 22:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Really though, can it be said that sambar server is the "main competitor" to Apache? I just noticed this update and from the looks of it, it's been done by someone who's trying to push Sambar. I didn't want to change the article without checking with some of the fellow contributors. Nageeb 06:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
that and it conflicts with the statement in the usage section about IIS Cheezl 05:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
When first released, Apache was the only viable free/open source alternative to the Netscape Communications Corporation web server
when apache was first released, both NCSA and CERN had free, open source servers available, the CERN server being the very first ever released, in fact - Netscape was the first commercial server, yes, but apache started off as an NCSA clone. m3tainfo 16:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
It still seems strange that this article starts off by asserting that Apache was the first viable competitor to the NCC web server. Did Netscape's web server ever have numerical dominance over NCSA/Apache? Or is this assertion meant as a specific reference to Apache's support of SSL? That's the biggest technical thing that Netscape's server had over the open-source competition back in the day. Jonabbey (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
There used to be a kickass page on .htaccess on wikipedia. Now .htaccess redirects to Apache HTTP Server.
While .htaccess might be a topic too technical for an encylopedia, the content that was on the .htaccess page was great and should be stored somewhere - perhaps Wikibooks.
That said, does anyone know what actually happened the the .htaccess page? Was it moved to Wikibooks? Or was it simply deleted? If it was deleted, that would be a real shame - it was a great article.
--Kraetos 21:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
You can view the "old" wikipedia htaccess page here, where the old version was thoughtfully posted for posterity.
I have started creating the "new" draft of the wikipedia htaccess page here
Produke 07:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
- The "new draft" was a copyright violation from Apache's documentation, which is not licensed under the GFDL. I removed it. Not to mention that Apache configuration documentation is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. -- intgr 08:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I knew it was pretty bad.. I just wanted to get the thing started asap because there are so many sites out there that still link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Htaccess so something would be better than broken I think.
I see your point about encyclopedic info, so would it be better to talk about capabilities? Thats what I was initially trying to do. Produke 23:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I think apache server isn't worth a quarter it hijacked my internet explorer and I can't seem to get it off my computer —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 2007 April 2.
No real information
This article offers no real information for visitors to understand how the Apache software works and should be used. It's all very well offering a history article, but visitors wanting to learn how to use the system, even the very basics, will find this article of no use.
Before you say 'why don't I submit something', I have attempted to add additional content, external links and so fourth to valid and useful information, but everything is removed!
It's time to clarify, what is the purpose of this article? If it is a history of the Apache web server, name it accordingly, if I search for .htaccess, I want to find out how to use .htaccess and what it is for, I do not want to be told the history of the software. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs).
If your adding things and people are removing them, post here what you want to add, and let it be discussed. Reedy Boy 13:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia not a tutorial site. There are tons of tutorials on .htaccess on the web. Even Apache.org's own manuals. If this popped up in your google search and you were looking for a tutorial, too bad. There are probably a billion more options to choose from on your google search :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
i agree wiki-bleple nothing usefull in this art. I lloking for info about 64-bit distro nothing about any distro copmare to other. The apache are in wiki reservation or what ? ip 10.2007
there is also nothing about internal structure of this software, databases engines, technicla limitations etc?
Internal structure or technical limitations? I'd say that's a good addition, but dunno if anyone has ever taken Apache to its limits :D. I'm not even sure whether Apache itself has any internal bottlenecks, and limitations arising are not purely because of the OS's TCP stack implementation or hardware bottlenecks. Database engines? That's related to PHP or Perl or w/e server side scripting language implementation's ability to communicate with a DB. Apache has little to do with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 19:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
"since March 2006 however [Apache] has experienced a steady decline of its market share ... As of October 2007 Apache served 47.73% of all websites, although there has been a steady spike in percentages recently". These don't go together, at least not without more info. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 19:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, and think the blow-by-blow commentary on Apache's month-to-month performance is a little out of place—particularly when the fluctuations are just a few percentage points. As such I modified that part of the paragraph to simply state the current market share percentage. Nfm (talk) 01:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Mobile Web Server (Symbian OS)
I've started an article about Mobile Web Server (Symbian OS), an Apache HTTP Server port by Nokia to their Symbian OS S60 mobile software platform. Can someone with Apache Server knowledge, please add some technical details regarding the extent of the port.—IncidentFlux [ TalkBack | Contributions ] 11:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
The majority of web servers using Apache run [Linux]
Could this be backed up with a reference? (Netcraft confirms it!). "The majority of" is a bit weasel-ey. Is this sentence even relevant in the context of the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 01:26, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Readability for nontechnical users
I want to talk about this article's readability for nontechnical users as this article is still categorized as being. the Features section of the article might be the only thing that is out of reach for normal readers. In addition any other improvements or expansions that could be made to this article with consensus would be great. andyzweb (talk) 03:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
- The "Use" and "Performance" sections also have rather high jargon-to-content ratios. I'm worried that too little emphasis is put on Apache's position in the market as well. That said, I don't think that the issue is important enough to warrant a tag at this point. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
About apache's origins
I think that maybe will be nice to tell the beginnings of httpd and then apache. From http://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html maybe we can extract the How Apache Came to Be section. Thanks
Here is the text that I want to add to the article: In February of 1995, the most popular server software on the Web was the public domain HTTP daemon developed by Rob McCool at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. However, development of that httpd had stalled after Rob left NCSA in mid-1994, and many webmasters had developed their own extensions and bug fixes that were in need of a common distribution. A small group of these webmasters, contacted via private e-mail, gathered together for the purpose of coordinating their changes (in the form of "patches"). Brian Behlendorf and Cliff Skolnick put together a mailing list, shared information space, and logins for the core developers on a machine in the California Bay Area, with bandwidth donated by HotWired. By the end of February, eight core contributors formed the foundation of the original Apache Group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:42, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Poorly written sentence about name
The article says:
"In addition the website claims that the name's story resulting from the server being A Patchy server (since it was a conjunction of software patches) is popular but incorrect."
- Standard English, Oxford Dictionary with some words missing. Won't be cogney. ;-) --184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:33, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Main design goal
"Although the main design goal of Apache is not to be the "fastest" web server ...". This is oddly worded. What is the main design goal? Is being the "fastest" web server a secondary design goal or not a goal at all? Nurg (talk) 21:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed. It is sorely missing. For instance, web browsers and Android have an elaborate version history. But this article is missing it. Microsoft's similar software, Internet Information Services, has a short, but sweet description of the various versions. --Mortense (talk) 15:01, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
AFD Headsup: Apache Rivet
I have noticed that wikipedia has some articles on Apache modules and I'm think that some of them may not be non-notable. To test the water about this issue, I have nominated the Apache Rivet article for deletion. Feel free to contribute to the discussion about it here: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Apache_Rivet. tommylommykins (talk) 20:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Big AFD headsup! All articles about apache modules, except list of apache modules
After the deletion of Apache Rivet (See above), I have nominated some similar articles for deletion. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Globule_(CDN) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommylommykins (talk • contribs) 16:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)