|WikiProject Mythology / Norse mythology||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
|WikiProject Norse history and culture||(Rated Start-class, Top-importance)|
- 1 Possible link to LOTR?
- 2 Locations
- 3 Wait. Did Hrimthurs build the wall or not?
- 4 Norse not Stargate
- 5 Ansuz* (Aesir) from North Caucasian (Iberian-Hurrian) 'amssV "God, Sky, Cloud"
- 6 Just some 'ease of reading' stuff
- 7 Too much on Wagner
- 8 "Etymologically, 'Asgard' is a derivative of Melasgerd "
- 9 Aasgaard
- 10 Assessment comment
is this a possible inspiration for eisengard in lord of the rings, if only the name, and if so, should this be included? JRR Tolkien did take a lot of inspiration from norse mythology after all -ross616- (talk) 00:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- If you can find a reliable source discussing this link it should be included, otherwise this would be original research. de Bivort 20:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
- from what i can find, gard is just a very common ending for place names in the old germanic tongue, so this is probably a coincidence, but possibly partly planned, but as i cant find any sources, i'll leave it out for now -ross616- (talk) 00:29, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
- Etymologically, it makes sense. Æsir /ˈaisɪr/ - Eisengard /ˈaisənˌgard/, Æsir - ir + gard = Asgard, Æsir → Æsen + gard = Eisengard. It's not such a huge jump. But that's all OR. BTW, "gard" (gård or gaard) is often found as a suffix on Scandinavian place names, and English cognates would include garden and yard (i.e. think of Kierkegaard as "Churchyard"). Wilhelm meis (talk) 06:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
- @-ross616-, Debivort, and Wilhelm meis: No link to LotR. This is a false lead, though I can't blame you for being misled. See etymology.
- In Old English, which Tolkien used to represent the language of the Rohirrim, isen is an adjective meaning 'iron, made from iron', and geard means 'enclosure' or 'dwelling'. So Isengard* means 'iron enclosure' or 'house of iron', either of which suits the place.
- gard is a simplified form of geard, probably for modern readers' convenience. The similarity of those North Germanic words (gard/gård/gaard) to gard is not a coincidence, but they're not the source: they're cognates.
- * Not Eisengard. Eisen means "iron" in German, not Old English.
- --Thnidu (talk) 04:22, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
Tokerboy, the location and relative positioning of Urd/Asgard is a deeply vexed question in the field of Norse cosmogeny:
In some descriptions one of Yggdrasil's roots extended into Asgard and under it, Urd's well. The gods were said to have court at the well every day riding there "up over Bifrost".
One of the problems with certain descriptions of the cosmology is why would the gods ride up over Bifrost if Urd's well was in Asgard? It seems logical that Urd's well was in the netherworld, that Asgard was in the branches of the world tree, and that the gods rode down Bifrost instead of up. user:sjc
- I'm not real sure, rereading my source, it's kind of ambiguous about where exactly everything was. Go ahead and change anything that isn't right, because I can't tell what this means exactly, or mention the difficulties in assigning spatial relationships with these kinds of things.
- I would also like to challenge the section that states that Asgard was on Earth, and the Bifrost bridge linked Asgard to heaven. I don't think the prose states Asgard was on Earth. 'Earth' I thought was Midgard, and the Bifrost bridge connected to 'Heaven', Asgard. When (worthy) warriors died they went to Valhalla, Odin's hall in Asgard. Therefore Asgard and heaven are sort of the same; there may be some disambiguation caused by the creeping Christianity in some of the work, but I think it should be investigated. I'm sure there's a drawing of the world tree somewhere, that clears up the positioning of the layers of the Norse World.--FruitMonkey 10:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Wait. Did Hrimthurs build the wall or not?
"The walls surrounding Asgard were built by a giant (often mistakenly identified as Hrimthurs), in return for which he was to receive in payment the hand of Freya in marriage and the sun and the moon. This was agreed provided that the work was completed within six months. In order to avoid the payment, Loki lured away Hrimthurs' magic horse, Svadilfari, by transforming himself into a mare and luring the horse away. The job was not completed on time and the gods evaded the payment."
- Digging through the page history logs, I found that this paragraph had been originally added by Sjc on September 11, 2002, and later removed (involuntarily, most likely) by someone while reverting a random edit on March 7, 2006. I restored the paragraph, taking the liberty to remove the giant's name (since this issue seems to be explained under Hrimthurs) and to do a slight copyedit. Daniel Mahu 21:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- "In the myth, the walls surrounding Asgard, designed to protect the Gods from the Giants, were built by a Hrimthurs, a Frost Giant, in disguise, in return for which he was to receive in payment the hand of Freya in marriage and the sun and the moon. This was agreed, provided that the work be completed within six months, and that he do it with no help. But Loki convinced the Æsir to allow the builder to let his stallion help in the building.
- As the construction neared completion, the Gods regretted their contract and the solemn vows with which they had concluded it, and they threatened Loki with horrid punishment. So, in order to avoid the payment, Loki transformed himself into a mare and lured away the Giant's magic horse, Svadilfari, (the result of which was the foaling of Sleipnir, Odin's eight-legged steed, best of all horses). After chasing his horse all night, the builder could see that the job could not be completed on time. He fell into such a rage that his identification as a Giant could no longer be concealed. The Æsir therefore felt their vows were void, and they called upon Thor, who had been absent fighting Trolls. Thor promptly smashed the Giant's skull with his hammer, Mjöllnir, and sent him straight to Niflhel. (Prose Edda, Gylfaginning, Paragraph XLII)."
- I put this in here for basically two reasons. First, I read the passage carefully and it nowhere says that the stronghold was Asgard; in fact, it implies that it was located in Midgard. Second, this is a relatively minor myth and there are dozens and dozens of minor myths in the chapter. But that was all there was in this article on Asgard. What I think the article needs is an overall summary on the topic of Asgard. Snorri makes it pretty clear that he thinks Asgard was Troy. Now, if more turns up on Asgard in some other work, then that material would go in a subsection on Asgard in that work. We're too scientific. There is no objective place called Asgard such that if someone describes one part of it, that description relates universal and objective truth and describes the laws of the universe in effect. Asgard is an imaginary place and whatever one author says about it is not what another would say. So, what it seems to me best to do is recapture the overall picture presented by each of the significant authors and not get hung up on the endless detail. The public wants to know what Asgard means in general terms. The stuff about the horse and the mare can go under Loki or the name of the giant. By the way, what is he saying, the stallion had a foal, or was it Loki that had it? Poets! Bah.Dave 00:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Norse not Stargate
Granted, in 21st century America when people think Asgard, most think of, if anything, the race from Stargate, but this is supposed to be an article about the realm of Norse gods. Nevertheless, over two thirds of this article is about the fictional, clone-race when it shouldn't mention them at all. If one would like to know about Stargate's Asgard, then he or she can do so through the Asgard disambiguation page. I think the sections Asgard in Stargate SG-1 and Asgard in fiction should be completely deleated from this page.
- Done - User:Kingdon
- I've created Asgard in popular culture - this should no longer be a problem. :bloodofox: 02:18, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
- ...And it was apparently deleted or I never got around to actually creating it. Whatever the case is, I've recreated it as these pages are very useful for collecting these random references that find their way on to the main article. :bloodofox: 19:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Ansuz* (Aesir) from North Caucasian (Iberian-Hurrian) 'amssV "God, Sky, Cloud"
Khattian "ESH-TAN" God of Sun; Yenissean Languages esh, es "God"; Nakh-Daghestanian Languages: as "Nobility, Conscience, God" (Lakian); "Autority, Virtue" (Avarian); Tsezian as, Gunzebian has "Sky, Cloud"; Chechenian "asar" Enthusiasm; Tabasaranian ams, Rutulian asiy "Cloud,Mist" (Hurrian ESHI "God") Nikolayev S.L., Starostin S.A. North Caucasian etymological dictionary. Moscow. 1994
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%C3%86sir"
Just some 'ease of reading' stuff
In the section Popular Culture the sentence referencing the golem from the game Wild Arms 3 was organized... uniquely, so I altered it for ease of reading--Arynknight 01:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Also added a link to this same sentence.--Arynknight 01:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Too much on Wagner
There's an unnecessary amount on Wagner in the opening paragraphs. Franknotes 00:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I think that Odin is an acient shamanic figure. He talks in verse, gather inteligence from ravens, has a ship that can be rolled up like a tablecloth ( flying carpet ???? ) and has a possessions in Turkland. Very interesting. kokturks used runic alphabet like the pagan Goths. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
"Etymologically, 'Asgard' is a derivative of Melasgerd "
Etymologically, 'Asgard' is a derivative of Melasgerd , a region once occupied by Cimmerians. According to Georgian historians  the Cimmerians (Gimmirri) moved northward from Melasgerd to conqueror Colchis and Iberia however Malasgerd became preserved as 'Asgard' during or subsequent to the northward migration. These migrations are noted by Ptolemy, Xenophon and others.
- This seems so much nonsense... asgard is from As- meaning god in Old Norse, and "-Gard" meaning 'yard' or enclosure... people association to Turkey is something that Snorri made up and Christians want to push as a way to de-mystifying the Teutonic indigenous belief system of Germanic cultures, making it something of attested historical events 18.104.22.168 (talk) 04:08, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
- why Turkey??? This person is writing about North Caucasus and not Turkey. Khattian "ESH-TAN" God of Sun; Yenissean Languages "esh, es" God; Nakh-Daghestanian Languages: (Lakian) "as" Nobility, Conscience, God; (Avarian) Autority, Virtue; Tsezian "as" Sky, Cloud; Gunzebian "has" Sky, Cloud; Chechenian "asar" Enthusiasm; Tabasaranian "ams" Cloud, Mist; Rutulian "asiy" Cloud,Mist; (Hurrian "ESHI" God) Nikolayev S.L., Starostin S.A. North Caucasian etymological dictionary. Moscow. 1994
Under the section "Other spellings" it says that in Danish and Swedish Asgård and Aasgaard is common. I don't know about Swedish but I doubt it. In Danish a double-a is an old form of the sound å which would make it sound funny in my ears. I'm a native Dane, raised with the stories about the old gods in both school and and media. Now even Hollywood is making their own versions. But I never heard anyone say Aasgaard/Åsgård. Maybe the first double-a was a mistake. In that case you would probably be able to find the spelling Asgaard in older texts but we don't use double-a anymore and I've never ever seen double-a in Swedish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 11:43, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section., and are posted here for posterity. Following
|Only one in-text cite/references, so Start. With more refs, easily a C and possibly a B. ErikTheBikeMan (talk) 19:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC)|
Last edited at 19:47, 20 September 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)