Talk:Askold and Dir
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An anonymous user has tried to Ukrainize the names in this article. Since this is the English language Wikipedia, the names should be in their conventional English forms.--Wiglaf 08:40, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Óskyldr doesn't mean "strange", but "unrelatet", so óskyldr Dyri would mean "unrelated to Dyr" Síðhǫttr 23:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Askola and Tiera
In 865 Askold and Dir (Russian version) / Höskuldr and Dyri (Scandinanavian version) tried to settle at Kvenugard (Kainuunlinna = [Wooden] Castle of Kvenu), also known as Sambatas, but they failed. Then they attacked with many ships against Miklagard (Constantinople) but, again, with bad luck. In Finnish history these two names are given Askola and Tiera, both of Finnish Kainuunmaa (Cvenland / Kvenuland), and recorded under title Kainuulaiset kauppasoturit ie. Armed Merchants from Kainuu (Kvenu). Look also the name given for Kiova by Byzantine Parfume born Emperor Constantine (Porphyrogenitus); Kioava and Sambatas. Sambatas might have been the name for Kvenulinna given by Finno Ugric Permian branch Viatsit (Russian: Vjatitsis), also known as Budin Votjakis (Otjakis) by the Russians, which lived by that time between Dinjeper (Dnieper) and Oka. Sambatas can be derived from Sampotaus or Samposanti from Proto Perma language. Compare with mythic Kalevala´s Sampola (Place of the Richness).
Henrikki Lättiläinen (Henrici the Lettus) in his Liiviinmaan Kronikka (Livonian Chronicle) used name Kywa for Kiev just by the time (1217) prior the Mongol attack against Kiova in 1240 and Iohn de Plano Carpini in 1245 after the Mongol destruction of Kiova name Kiouw. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 04:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
MILHIST B-class checklist
Book of Veles
This is not a real chronicle. No serious professional historian would accept it as legitimate source, since it is almost certainly a forgery constructed in the 20th century. It should actually be removed completely from the introduction, if not the article. The only reason I have not done that is so that readers can look at the scholarly reference I provided. Until someone can cite something more authoritative than the website of a Ukrainian newspaper, the article should make it clear that the so-called 'chronicle' is a forgery that is not taken seriously by any but the most fringe 'historians'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 22:08, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
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Ragnarsona þattr - reference check?
The article makes the claim that "According to the Tale of Ragnar's Sons, Askold was the son of Hvitserk, and the grandson of Ragnar Lodbrok".
However, my most commonly perused copy of Ragnarsona þattr, http://www.germanicmythology.com/FORNALDARSAGAS/ThattrRagnarsSonar.html, bears no mention of Askold, or indeed any son of Hvitserk.
- I'm not sure that the online translation you've pointed to is the definitive version, or an abbreviated version, but there is certainly no mention of any of Hvitserk's progeny. I've added a 'citation needed' template for that claim for the moment. If it can't be confirmed via other sources, it breaks any connection between the 'Tale' any the Askold and Dir myth. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:36, 26 May 2015 (UTC)