Talk:Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria

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Good article Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Rank of Count Harrach: 1st Lt[edit]

Franz Count Harrach was not a regular offr, he was a member of the Imperial and Royal Volunteers' Automobil Corps and as such he held the rank of 1st Lt (the highest rank those car owners who had had no previous mil service could raise to at that time). Members of the Automobil Corps were regularly called up for manouevers along with their drivers and their vehicles. -- It is a very common mistake to confuse the rank of LtCol with 1st Lt as their designations in German language differ in only two characters: Oberstleutnant = LtCol vs. Oberleutnant = 1st Lt. Peter Mulacz (talk) 00:29, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Driver Lojka in the Third/Second Car?[edit]

The question of why the archduke's driver, Leopold Lojka (so-called) turned right off the Appel Quay - as illustrated in the diagram - is not adequately explained. Since the royal couple and Lojka are described as "once again in the third car" (Town Hall reception para. 3) for the journey from the Town Hall to the hospital, the issue is the circumstances in which he turned right. It was said that he had been misinformed of the changed route - which was to be along the Appel Quay where the first bomb was thrown - and was turning to follow "the original route which would have taken them to the National Museum" (Fatal Shooting section). This firstly makes no sense as he and the other drivers were instructed to head to the hospital to visit the wounded.

Secondly, and far more importantly, did the leading (i.e. first) car also turn right along with the second car? An answer is not given in the article, though it is implied that Lojka ALONE turned right.

1) Given that Lojka alone turned right, the question is: why would he then deviate from the convoy route? - and just at the place where Prinzip was waiting at or in the café! This implies some prearranged setup - especially as Lojka's name has been 'corrected' from an original name published for the driver (i.e. perhaps the driver was some lookalike). For Lojka (the driver of the imperial couple) to break the convoy idiosyncratically - hardly a normal response given the need for the cars to keep together after a bombing attack earlier - clearly implies his complicity.

2) Conversely, if the first car had turned right - and Lojka immediately follow them - then the issue transfers to the driver in the first car who would then have been leading Lojka off the new course along Appel Quay. However this is implied not to be what happened given that "Governor Potiorek, who was sharing the second vehicle with the Imperial couple, called out to the driver (implicity Lojka) to reverse and take the Quay to the hospital." Note however that the imperial couple are now in the second car and not the third car as stated in the previous paragraph.

Hence it is difficult NOT to conclude that Lojka (i.e. the imperial couples' driver) is complicit in the assassination for having not followed the first car. Potiorek's complicity is much less likely as he reasonably & innocently told the driver to stop to regain the agreed new course along Appel Quay when the driver unexpectedly turned right. 124.168.246.164 (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

The Talk Pages are NOT for forum-like discussions on the topic, but the discussion of RELIABLE SOURCES for the improvement of the articles. Nor is it the place to post the most lamentable Original Research bilge. Please follow the TP rules. 98.67.0.138 (talk) 05:46, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

These remarks about "bilge" are completely unfair. The fact is Franz Ferdinand was not a popular man in Austria, nor in Hungary, nor in Serbia. Many people wanted to see him gotten rid of; and in fact, a 7-man hit team was assembled in Sarajevo to do just that. It is completely correct historiography to point out inconsistencies in the standard narrative and why they may be wrong. That's the whole point of it all. Missaeagle (talk) 16:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Point of view[edit]

Princip`s ONLY goal was to kill Ferdinand because he supported federalization of the monarchy, which would include unification of Bosnia with Croatia. "Yugoslavia" was always a code word for Greater Serbia. And Bosnia was part of Serbia only in their myths. This "encyclopedia" is pro Serb on many articles including describing WW2 Serbian fascists as honorable guerilla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.255.193 (talk) 13:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Greg King[edit]

Greg King writes that Muhamed Mehmedbašić recruited Danilo Ilić, and confusingly that Apis did not know of a "second plot" by Young Bosnia members to kill the Archduke but then suggested it, when in fact Ilić recruited Mehmedbašić and Apis ordered the assassination. This is from a quick look at one page only. Removing King's monograph The Assassination of the Archduke due to serious inconsistencies. There are other sources with differing accounts as well, which need to be addressed.--Zoupan 11:27, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

recent edit[edit]

Re [1]. Need a better source than the History channel. Volunteer Marek  03:23, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

"Secret Treaty of 1892"[edit]

Hi there, I noticed that the link of Secret Treaty of 1892 leads to an article of an entirely different name, without any occurrence of the word, "Secret". Considering the parties involved, I suppose this would be considered hm, touchy, but I think the obvious discontinuity ought to be addressed somehow. 208.76.28.70 (talk) 19:11, 16 October 2017 (UTC)