Talk:Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Good article Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Biography / Military (Rated GA-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the military biography work group (marked as Top-importance).
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated GA-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
GA This article has been rated as GA-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina (Rated GA-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria is part of the WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Serbia (Rated GA-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Yugoslavia (Rated GA-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria is within the scope of WikiProject Yugoslavia, a collaborative effort to improve the Wikipedia coverage of articles related to Yugoslavia and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Death (Rated GA-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 GA  This article has been rated as GA-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Rank of Count Harrach: 1st Lt[edit]

Franz Count Harrach was not a regular offr, he was a member of the Imperial and Royal Volunteers' Automobil Corps and as such he held the rank of 1st Lt (the highest rank those car owners who had had no previous mil service could raise to at that time). Members of the Automobil Corps were regularly called up for manouevers along with their drivers and their vehicles. -- It is a very common mistake to confuse the rank of LtCol with 1st Lt as their designations in German language differ in only two characters: Oberstleutnant = LtCol vs. Oberleutnant = 1st Lt. Peter Mulacz (talk) 00:29, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Driver Lojka in the Third/Second Car?[edit]

The question of why the archduke's driver, Leopold Lojka (so-called) turned right off the Appel Quay - as illustrated in the diagram - is not adequately explained. Since the royal couple and Lojka are described as "once again in the third car" (Town Hall reception para. 3) for the journey from the Town Hall to the hospital, the issue is the circumstances in which he turned right. It was said that he had been misinformed of the changed route - which was to be along the Appel Quay where the first bomb was thrown - and was turning to follow "the original route which would have taken them to the National Museum" (Fatal Shooting section). This firstly makes no sense as he and the other drivers were instructed to head to the hospital to visit the wounded.

Secondly, and far more importantly, did the leading (i.e. first) car also turn right along with the second car? An answer is not given in the article, though it is implied that Lojka ALONE turned right.

1) Given that Lojka alone turned right, the question is: why would he then deviate from the convoy route? - and just at the place where Prinzip was waiting at or in the café! This implies some prearranged setup - especially as Lojka's name has been 'corrected' from an original name published for the driver (i.e. perhaps the driver was some lookalike). For Lojka (the driver of the imperial couple) to break the convoy idiosyncratically - hardly a normal response given the need for the cars to keep together after a bombing attack earlier - clearly implies his complicity.

2) Conversely, if the first car had turned right - and Lojka immediately follow them - then the issue transfers to the driver in the first car who would then have been leading Lojka off the new course along Appel Quay. However this is implied not to be what happened given that "Governor Potiorek, who was sharing the second vehicle with the Imperial couple, called out to the driver (implicity Lojka) to reverse and take the Quay to the hospital." Note however that the imperial couple are now in the second car and not the third car as stated in the previous paragraph.

Hence it is difficult NOT to conclude that Lojka (i.e. the imperial couples' driver) is complicit in the assassination for having not followed the first car. Potiorek's complicity is much less likely as he reasonably & innocently told the driver to stop to regain the agreed new course along Appel Quay when the driver unexpectedly turned right. 124.168.246.164 (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

The Talk Pages are NOT for forum-like discussions on the topic, but the discussion of RELIABLE SOURCES for the improvement of the articles. Nor is it the place to post the most lamentable Original Research bilge. Please follow the TP rules. 98.67.0.138 (talk) 05:46, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Point of view[edit]

Princip`s ONLY goal was to kill Ferdinand because he supported federalization of the monarchy, which would include unification of Bosnia with Croatia. "Yugoslavia" was always a code word for Greater Serbia. And Bosnia was part of Serbia only in their myths. This "encyclopedia" is pro Serb on many articles including describing WW2 Serbian fascists as honorable guerilla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.255.193 (talk) 13:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)