Talk:Association football

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Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Q: I've never heard of this sport being called "Association football".
A: The term "association football" is the original name for the sport. However, its usage has diminished in recent years, with different cultures developing their own word(s) for the sport. Even the word "soccer" derives from the -soc- in "association".
Q: Why not just "Football"?
A: This is because there are several sports that are known as football in different countries. For example, in the United States, American football is primarily referred to as "football", while the same is true of Gaelic football in Ireland, Canadian football in Canada, Rugby union in New Zealand, and Rugby league or Australian rules football in Australia. The title "association football" avoids any ambiguity over which code of football is being referred to, and also removes the potential for accusations of bias towards any particular code. Meanwhile, the Football page is a "broad-concept article", providing a general overview of all of the sports named "football".
Q: Why not "Soccer" then?
A: In the United Kingdom, the usage of the term "soccer", a term which originated in South East England, is sometimes viewed as being derogatory, or an example of American culture being forced onto the rest of the world. Therefore, although the word "soccer" would be an unambiguous title for this article, there would be discontent from a large number of people who object to their word for the sport being ignored. Others point to "soccer" being the most widely used name for the sport in English-speaking nations—however the statistics for this are not readily available or are confusing (e.g. India is the largest country with English as an official language and refers to the game as "football", but English is not the primary language for most Indians) and others where countries change their official name for the sport (as Australia have done by now referring to the sport as "football", renaming Soccer Australia to Football Federation Australia and changing the local associations' names to reflect this, whilst the general populace refer to the game as "soccer").
Q: What about "Football (soccer)"?
A: On Wikipedia, the placing of a word in parentheses in the title of an article is used as a method of disambiguation, with the parenthesised word usually being a set of which the article's subject is a part. Therefore, the title "Football (soccer)" implies that football is a form of soccer, which is not the case.
Featured article Association football is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 20, 2006.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
June 10, 2006 Featured article candidate Promoted
October 15, 2007 Featured article review Kept
Current status: Featured article
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
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WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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more commonly known[edit]

more commonly known, a phrase meaning the correct lemma everywhere else on this planet is just the perfect sign for the abuse of language.--213.39.142.44 (talk) 06:37, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

You, sir, are talking rubbish. The game has an official name (association football) and two other common names (football and soccer), neither of which has demonstrable prominence the world over. Therefore, we introduce the sport with its official names and then immediately make note of the two common names. – PeeJay 15:04, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
The game is pretty demonstrably "football" the world over, the problem being that in English Americans outnumber the other native speakers and the Aussies have their own variant game as well. In any case, this discussion seems to belong at the Article name subpage. — LlywelynII 21:15, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
First, linking the UK and US is a violation of WP:OVERLINK.
Second, it's an over-simplification to indicate that it's known as football in British English. I would accept "in most locations in the English-speaking world", but not simply the UK. It's also known as soccer in locations that are not the United States. I happen to live in one of those locations. Please gain consensus for a change in the lede. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:47, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
It is dealt with much better in the name section. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:49, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
The idea that the US and UK links are WP:OVERLINK is nonsense. The only question is whether to link to British and American English or to Differences between American and British English.
Second, it's British English and most of the rest of the English-speaking world does not uniformally know it as "football". We have an entire article on the topic if you'd care to read up on it. In any case, it is an improvement over what went before, with no clarification in the lead as to who is using what.
That said, fair enough about consensus and won't push it past 3rr, despite you being (as noted above) completely in the wrong as a matter of policy and standard practice and unhelpful to our readers in this particular instance. — LlywelynII 16:33, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Linking US and UK is an overlink as is linking the languages. No one is coming to the article to be redirected to the US or UK articles so it makes no sense to link them. They are common terms to any English-reader. Linking the languages is similarly an overlink. If you doubt, go ask on the talk page of the article that describes what it is.
You're confusing British English with International English. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
I also don't see this as necessary. Both "football" and "soccer" are known outside of these two major varieties. This is a matter for the article body, not the first sentence.--Cúchullain t/c 17:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
The point is, which has been discussed a load of times, that the name of the sport is association football. Football is a type of sport, not a sport. You wouldn't call the tawny owl or barn owl article "owl" would you? I don't EVER say "I'm going to an association football match", or "I'm going to the association football" because everyone who knows me is fully aware of what I mean when I say football as it's the only code of football I watch. However if I was a fan of several codes of football I'd have to specify. The name of the article is Association Football. It will remain so as that is the correct name as discussed at great length several times. Cls14 (talk) 08:54, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
When introducing the subject of barn owls, we start by explaining that it's a type of owl.
And the points for me are linking common English-language terms, such as a nation or a variant of the English language, is against an editing guideline. The second point is that if we're going to make a point in the article, it needs to be accurate, and your wording was not. It is known as "football" in every variant of English, but it is most frequently used in locations where English is spoken and that are not the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. To limit that to the United Kingdom is simply wrong. And to limit "soccer" only to the United States is also simply wrong.
So wrong editing guidelines and an overgeneralization make it wrong on multiple levels. It is explained sufficiently in the lede and expanded on in the first section. This means a it's not needed in the lede. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:08, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 January 2016[edit]

24.108.143.166 (talk) 03:41, 23 January 2016 (UTC) socer is one of the worlds smallest sports. in other countries it is called football,in the united states of america football is a violent and a much bigger game played around the world in australia,china,europe and many other citys and countreis around the world. one fact about socer is that the players usualy over exaguate their injuries to make the ohter player get penalties, there are two types of cards the yellow one and the red one, the yellow card means that whatever you did was good the red card means that whate whatever you did is worthy of a privet dinner with the pressident.

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --allthefoxes (Talk) 03:58, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Kahlia Hogg[edit]

Notable? I dont think so. Should be AfD'ed? Murry1975 (talk) 21:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Played in the A-League and at international U21 level. Seems notable enough Cls14 (talk) 23:01, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Wrong forum. Take it to the talk page at WP:FOOTY. I would say not notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:13, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2016[edit]

250 million to 300 million and 200 countries 182.255.118.110 (talk) 03:16, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

X mark.svg Not done Your change cannot be made because it is not supported with a reference. There are four references there and the first is most clear. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:24, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

India?[edit]

I can not understand the relevance of the India Football information given in the article. I find it too focused on an otherwise generalistic article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eltor0pt (talkcontribs) 15:21, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

  • I agree with that. Never noticed before. Paragraph removed. Cls14 (talk) 08:46, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Is there any country where this sport is called "Association football"?[edit]

If so, we should list those countries in the name section. If not, then it is crucial that we mention this. I'm not here to argue about the name of the article, but people reading the article should be able to get a realistic representation of this sport's name and that the current title reflects more a technicality in Wikipedia than widespread acceptance. I think this is definitely noteworthy. Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:03, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

It's called Association Football in every English speaking country. We're not going to list them. Please read the discussions on the name of the sport from the previous talk pages :-) Cls14 (talk) 21:27, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
What title would you recommend, Hamster? Neither "football" nor "soccer" predominates in any significant way, so "association football" - which is the official name for the sport in every country that plays it - is the only viable title. – PeeJay 23:36, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
He's not saying to change the title, just asking if the sport is commonly known as "association football" in any English-speaking countries. I do agree with him that the article should note that the name is not used commonly. Calidum ¤ 04:57, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Is the opening sentence of the article not clear enough? "Association football, more commonly known as football or soccer" Cls14 (talk) 19:46, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
No it is not clear. My original question was: "Is there any country in the world where it is called Association football?". Maybe we should explain: "Although technically called association football this name is not used to refer to the sport in any country". Unless this statement is not true. If that is the case, which countries are the exception? Also, as I said in my first comment, I am NOT here to try to change the title of the article but just to make the issue known to a casual reader. One shouldn't have to dig into the wiki talk pages to discern what is real information and what is the aftermath of a big wikipedia argument on technicalities. Hamsterlopithecus (talk) 18:34, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
"I am NOT here to try to change the title of the article" -- then what on earth are you doing here? Jmorrison230582 (talk) 05:31, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
From what he wrote, he wants the countries that call it "association football" to be itemize in a list. In other words, he seems to want a phrase like "No country in the world calls it association football." I assume he wants it immediately before "Within the English-speaking world, association football is now usually called". I'm just guessing. I don't think it's necessary though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:46, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
His question was "Is there any country where this sport is called "association football"?" The answer is still yes. It's called Association Football in many countries, it's just not commonly known as it there. Cls14 (talk) 07:38, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Draft outline[edit]

There is a draft for a outline of this article at Wikipedia:WikiProject Outlines/Drafts/Outline of association football. There's also a RM request on the talk page for moving it to draftspace if anyone is interested. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2016[edit]

The first line of the "History" section says that "cuju ... is the earliest form of football for which there is scientific evidence." Instead of "scientific evidence," it should be "historical evidence." The FIFA article doesn't mention any use of scientific or archaeological techniques to determine that cuju was a sport. There are only historical records that describe cuju such that we know that it was similar activity to football.

jonyen (talk) 18:05, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template.  B E C K Y S A Y L E 03:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC)