Talk:Aten (city)

A news item involving Aten (city) was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 11 April 2021.

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The area[edit]

Maps showing the area in 1809. It would be great to be able to mark Aten on these maps, but we would need an exact location which I have not been able to find. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:42, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Location[edit]

I added coordinates based on this foto. I could not find a more reliable publication, as Mr Hawass did not write a paper but just posted stuff on Facebook and Twitter. ♆ CUSH ♆ 19:50, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, chaps. I think the official press conference will take place tomorrow, after which there should be many more sources providing greater detail.Nishidani (talk) 20:36, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Added coordinates to WD, subject to further changes and/or refs once location is confirmed. Alvaro Vidal-Abarca (talk) 04:32, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

name[edit]

currently, the article seems to imply that the name Aten is given by archeologists today. is there a reference to this being the name in use millennia ago? 2601:602:9200:1310:F45F:78EC:5FDB:B9CD (talk) 09:14, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 April 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Aten (city) be renamed and moved to Thehen Aten (city) .

result:
Not moved. No consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) -2pou (talk) 16:52, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Aten (city) → Thehen Aten (city) – The article should be moved to "Thehen Aten" which corresponds with the meaning of "the dazzling Aten" or the initial "the Rise of Aten", as per Zahi Hawass and Egyptologists statements. CaeserKaiser (talk) 22:33, 11 April 2021 (UTC) --CaeserKaiser (talk) 22:33, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CaeserKaiser, do you have a source for this? It does not appear to be the WP:commonname from the sources I have read. Onceinawhile (talk) 00:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is literally not a single reason we would change the name to a botched modern transliteration of a hieroglyphic standard. Zhomron (talk) 03:09, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. If this article were to be moved, it need be only to Thehen Aten. The qualifier of "city" is unnecessary since there's no other article using the name. Station1 (talk) 06:40, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. How many ancient Egyptian cities are referred to by their endonyms? My feeling is that it is far too early to change the name from that widely given in press coverage, but that if the emerging scholarship decides on a different form, then, only then, we should make the name switch. Nishidani (talk) 08:50, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - no evidence provided from sources as to why this change should be made, and the present name appears to be overwhelmingly the WP:COMMONNAME in reliable English sources. — Amakuru (talk) 09:14, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Clear WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:11, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Aten is a clear WP:COMMONNAME, and I am not seeing any proper source giving the name as officially "Thehen Aten" (despite it being the modern transliteration of hieroglyphics. JackFromReedsburg (talk | contribs) 12:57, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Reason for suggesting the move to the aforementioned page is the original hieroglyphic name of the city in the article pn-ṯḥn-jtn. In addition, the hieroglyphic word ṯḥn is synonymous with meanings of "shining", "glowing", "sparkling" and "gleaming as jewelry" (in the sense of 'Golden city').^[1] CaeserKaiser (talk) 14:00, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ Hannig, Rainer (1995). Großes Handwörterbuch Ägyptisch - Deutsch (2800 – 950 v. Chr.): die Sprache der Pharaonen (Marburger ed.). Verlag Philipp von Zabern [de]. pp. 960–961. ISBN 3-8053-1771-9.

Addition. @Onceinawhile: @Zhomron: @Station1: @Nishidani: @Amakuru: @Necrothesp: @JackFromReedsburg: Zahi Hawass in a video call with Al Jazeera Mubasher channel states that the name of the city is "Thehen Aten" at 2:29.^[1] CaeserKaiser (talk) 14:47, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbonHkVINSw

- I'm afraid this is utterly irrelevant to its title on Wikipedia. All that matters is its common name. And that is without doubt overwhelmingly simply Aten. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I hate to pile on here since the point's already been made, but, technically the reconstruction would be Tjehen, not Thehen. t in the Egyptological reconstruction scheme used by Wikipedia (Hannig 1995, Allen 2000) is used to represent tj. You may be confusing it with like, pronunciation reconstructions where "Th" sounds are transliterated as t, but either way in these formulae that's not what it represents. Zhomron (talk) 15:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment. Apropos the Egyptian name: whatever the precise transcription, it is premature to add it now, as opposed to a month or several down the line. Patience. The earth was created theologically in six days. Rome took a little longer, several centuries (and many more centurions), according to the proverb. Between the urgent cosmic instantaneity of the former and la longue durée of the latter, we should take a leaf out of the wisdombook of Greek vernacular usage when writing wiki articles -φασούλι το φασούλι, γεμίζει το σακούλι. (bean after bean the sack is filled). Nishidani (talk) 17:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - Easy there, Webster. Maybe refrain from commenting on matters unless you actually have something to say. Zhomron (talk) 19:50, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Zhomron: I think he is trying to elaborate a previous comment. -- CaeserKaiser (talk) 20:47, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

City?[edit]

The article says that the settlement was located between Medinet Habu and the mortuary temple of Amenhotep III. These two structures are roughly 800 m apart. Can a settlement that fits within an 800 m gap really be called a "city"? Furius (talk) 23:59, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Hannig, Rainer (1995). Großes Handwörterbuch Ägyptisch - Deutsch (2800 – 950 v. Chr.): die Sprache der Pharaonen (Marburger ed.). Verlag Philipp von Zabern [de]. pp. 960–961. ISBN 3-8053-1771-9.

[2] ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbonHkVINSw

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