Talk:Autodidacticism

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Rather informal and subjective[edit]

The discussions in the talk page do point out that in the information age, anyone who learns stuff from internet falls under this category. So soon "everyone" can be considered self-taught by this definition.

However I came to this article by a suggestion that only 10% of population have some sort of attraction to perhaps learning things that are not formally taught. That maybe what some of the famous people had. So there maybe some confusion to what exactly this means.

One of my favorite articles that touches these differences is this: http://the-programmers-stone.com/the-original-talks/day-1-thinking-about-thinking/

If you scroll to the bottom of that page it lists some key differences that ring personally true. I posit that the "autodidact" are probably found in this "mapper" category predominantly but to answer this for sure would be work for future research.

One of my favorite lines from tv was "boldly going where no man has gone before" - while I long thought that everyone is like this, the more people you know well, it's clear that we aren't all alike - not everyone shares the drive to learn, discover, invent every day. Another modern favorite is a PTJ quote "if life ever ceases to be an education/ve experience then I probably wouldn't get out of bed". Given the context I don't think he is referring to sitting in academia or listening to lectures but to coming up with original ideas and learning about the markets/economy etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.155.19.146 (talk) 21:56, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Older comments[edit]

One can not literally be described as "self taught" by mostly limiting their learning to reading books (as opposed to attending conventional schools), given that books are written by others. By reading they are being TAUGHT, just indirectly through the medium of writing. --- My impression is that an autodidact is a self-taught SCHOLAR, or someone in scholarly pursuits. I do not think Uma Thurman or Phillip K Dick should be on the list. They simply left school to pursue a career. Otherwise, any in a career who dropped out or skipped college (including Peter Jennings, Bill Gates) would fall into the category. That misses the spirit of the term.

Second. Indeed! We have to add only the greatest autodidacts, e.g. Leonardo Da Vinci. Feel free to change the list in any way you feel will suit.
That sounds like a good differentiation. Though, even though PK Dick wasn't a scholar, he was a professional intellectual who apparently educated/trained himself. And Uma Thurman, if she educated/trained herself how to act, could be seen as a kind of autodidactic artist, which seems much more relevant than an 'autodidactic businessman' or 'autodidactic journalist'. We could have a main list of autodidactic scholars, and an ancillary list for autodidactic intellectuals and artists.--Nectarflowed 01:18, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How about any successful person, especially if in the public eye, who happened to start but not finish college? The strict sense of autodidacticism is self-teaching. Self-directed education is a weak meaning of the word, because virtually everyone self-directs unless they are an indentured servant, or are psychologically manipulated. I attempted to soften the text somewhat in this regard. Feel free to help clarify (or refute) this distinction. --Blainster 19:55, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

David Friedman[edit]

Would David Friedman be considered an autodidact? He has reportedly never taken a formal economics class (he was a Physics major), and he now teaches Economics at the University of Chicago and writes books on the subject. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 18:43, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's part of a larger point. Many of the people on our list probably wouldn't think of themselves using the specific term autodidact, even though their biographies clearly meet the definitions of the term.--Nectarflowed 01:18, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
If you check the Friedman link, you will see he has been at University of Santa Clara since 1995. As the son of Nobel economist Milton Friedman, he would hardly qualify as an autodidact, even if he never took an economics class (unless he was not raised by his father). --Blainster 18:56, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not a stub?[edit]

Even though the page is huge, the actual information on autodidactism seems small. The statement "Inquiry into autodidacticism has implications in learning theory and educational theory, educational research, educational philosophy and educational psychology." seems like it should lead into a very detailed discussion. This is why I had left the {{stub}}. JesseHogan 20:48, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Agree. Anyone who wants to do some research for this article (which appears to be a popular one) might start with the book The Passion To Learn: An Inquiry into Autodidactism by Joan Solomon. The product description writes: "The final chapter addresses the implications of autodidactism for educational theory, research, philosophy and psychology."--Nectarflowed 23:49, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Autodidactic Category[edit]

Would it not be appropriate to create an autodidactic category and use it as an alternative to the enourmous list we have going. JesseHogan 03:34, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I removed the list and created a category for Autodidacts. I'm hopeful that this will lead to a more thorough and accurate listing of famous autodidacts.JesseHogan 04:46, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have added your new category to the "Category" section, although it is embedded in the article's text. --Blainster 18:18, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I felt like it should be removed so I took it out. Autodidacts are people, so it seems illogical to list a method of learning (Autodidacticism) under a classification of people. The category page and this article both link to one another so there shouldn't be an issue with page discovery. JesseHogan 23:19, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Added the Nobel Prize of Literature José Saramago[edit]

You may know, José Saramago (Nobel Prize of Literature) at the age of 13 he was forced to abandon the studies and began to work as a mechanic. Then, he continued working as a locksmith for 30 years. Failed publishing his first novel in 1947. Saramago is a self made man, which without studies won the Nobel Prize of Literature. I find this important, to quote him as an autodidact. The reference where this is explained is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/cultura_sociedad/2009/06/090622_entrevista_saramago_pea.shtml An interview Saramago granted to the BBC. It is in Spanish (Saramago is a long term resident in Spain, in Las Islas Canarias). In the interview you will learn that he was an autodidact.

Lee Sallows quote[edit]

Perhaps this quote may be integrated:

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.243.191.103 (talkcontribs)

References

  1. ^ Natuurwetenschap & Techniek, december 2009

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Proposed merge with Heutagogy[edit]

This is a neologism that has received a few mentions and gained a little traction – enough that it may be probably be considered notable. It exists, but it seems there's nothing much more to be said about it – see Talk:Heutagogy. As proposed here by czar, it can for now be adequately covered in a few sentences in this article; it can always be split out again if it ever grows disproportionately large. Ping John Nagle, Rhododendrites, ukexpat who have participated in previous discussion of this. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:13, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

That should have read "ping Nagle" … Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:18, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I still don't see any meaningful separation between the two concepts. And if the point about learner-centeredness is more important than the self-directedness, there are other targets that already exist for that as well. I am no longer watching this page—ping if you'd like a response czar 16:02, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I dunno. The last time this was discussed, at Talk:Heutagogy#Not_a_new_idea.2C_just_a_new_word, there was no consensus. Tried passing the buck to the Education project: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Education/Archive_8#Heutagogy.2C_Andragogy.2C_and_all_that. No help there; the best comment was *"Sadly, I think it — the education theory subsection of the encyclopedia — is a fairly accurate representation of the current state of the field. It's beyond our power to sort out many things in this area because it's lacking in internal and historical consistency and hasn't been sorted or well-policed by the experts."*. Fair enough.
Here's an option. We have self-directed learning now, but it's a redirect to autodidacticism. How about moving autodidacticism to self-directed learning, and making autodidacticism and heutagogy both redirects. Any content unique to heutagogy should be mentioned at self-directed learning. Policy at WP:TITLE says titles should be "short, natural, distinguishable and recognizable." Here, one can have natural and recognizable, or short and distingushable, but not both. That gets us out of arguing over ambiguous terminology, which is usually futile. John Nagle (talk) 21:11, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
I'd support this option. Czar, does it seem reasonable to you? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:32, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
It seems we're in agreement that they all cover the same concept. I don't see why Heutagogy can be merged into Self-directed learning but not Autodidacticism. I think the latter (also known as self-teaching/self-education) is the common name for the concept. "Self-directed learning" is a more recent buzzword (c. 1970s) that refers to the existing concept. Autodidacticism meets all of the article title criteria previously listed. If the professional organizations specifically built around self-directed learning & heutagogy have secondary sources and thus should be covered, it's fine to do so within the existing structure from which it can always split out summary style. czar 16:53, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Merge to autodidacticism, with the suggested redirects, is OK. It's not a widely used word, but it's in some dictionaries. Let's do that to clear up the hetagogy mess. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 19:02, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
  • Sounds good. And I wouldn't be opposed to renaming "autodidacticism" to self-teaching, self-education, or the like, but it would take some research into what sources use most often as the concept's common name (which could also differ between cultures). Autodidacticism is a bit awkward but might be the most universal czar 21:55, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
I've merged what I could, as best I could. If anyone can do better, please do! That leaves the question of whether this page should be moved to a different title. That's not a discussion I'm going to be part of. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

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