Talk:Ayers Rock (band)

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Ref issues update[edit]

As you know, the issues have been resolved with the majority of tagged refs. Regarding the remaining ones:

  • Ref No. 38 (Allen): this ref is included to verify the claim that Ayers Rock supported Charlie Daniels in the States. I have been unsuccessful finding this article, but it and "Charlie Daniels" can be removed with very little damage to the article.
  • Ref No. 76 (Kelton) "Chip of the Old Rock": this one supports a quote, and I think it is somewhat important. The matter will be resolved, one way or another, within two weeks, possibly by uploading the scan to Wikidata.
  • Ref No. 79 (Kislaitis): there is no practical possibility of finding a full academic reference for this one. I will take it out, and the content it supports quite soon. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 00:04, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
  1. I am impressed with your fine detective work finding those pages numbers, with these changes resolved you should take this article to the Guild of Copy Editors and afterwards propose it for GA status.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:12, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

[Perhaps unrelated]: Billboard ref on Ayers Rock US radio play, here p. 49, in May 1975. Note: Daniels' single, "Long Haired Country Boy", charted that week in the top 100.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I used your tip to find the Big Red Rock review in Billboard (12 April 1975), which I'd been seeking for a long time. Thankyou so much.
I suggest that we share the process for advancing the article. Perhaps I could take it to the Guild of Copy Editors, and you propose it for GA status, or vice versa. Once we have been through the Guild stage, the article should be mostly free of problems. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 00:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
I have no problem with making a joint-submission to both once you've finished the last few page neededs. It might be time to scan to wikidata.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:43, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
A joint-submission is quite appropriate, in my opinion. I have a technical problem with the scan. On the scan I have, a dog-ear on the page partially obscures one word; you guessed it, that word is part of the quotation in the article. It might take a short while to arrange a re-scan. Kislaitis and that awkward sentence after it, are out and will be replaced by a short quote from the Billboard review. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 04:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
shaidar cuebiyar, it seems to me that waiting for a re-scan is quite likely to go beyond our timeline. I suggest that I put the current scan onto Wikidata asap, and replace it with a better scan at a later time. What do you think? CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 10:40, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, go for it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Once you're happy, then pop it to the guild's Requests sub-page. You have my permission to post a joint submission there. Note, it may take a month or two.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:59, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

More small problems[edit]

Those rotten links keep popping up. This time it's ref no.3, Ayers Rock @ McFarlane, where the link to the original leads to a 404 error. I assume there is no cure, and we need to unlink "the original". CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 19:11, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

As long as the archiveurl works, the non-link at 'the original' should be no problem at GA (or FA for that matter). That's the purpose of using archiveurls: over time more and more of 'the original' links will rot or deliver errors. I can remember having to remove a cherished quote from an article at GA when the link rot occurred between nominating the article and it being reviewed: I couldn't recover the link at Wayback. The whole website which housed Spencer's The Who's Who of Australian Rock went before I knew I should use WebCite to cover it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:16, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
OK You don't know, if you don't ask. I still don't know much about archiveurls; only that they work, and they are very good. We hope that Googlenews are going to maintain their urls, and increase their scope. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 08:48, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
The main archival sites I've used are Wayback Machine, WebCite and PANDORA. The former two run on user donations and both have had financial trouble in maintaining their storage facilities: its quite possible that their funding will run out and no more storing/recovering lost urls there. The third site is currently Oz-gov sponsored, which (along with Trove) is helpful for Australian sources – however its all dependent on gov policy/funding. Even though Milesago (Kimball) still works at 'the original' I'd still put in an archiveurl, just in case. I don't think the site is still being maintained by K. Australian Rock Database (Holmgren) and Howlspace (Nimmervoll) have both gone down to link rot or domain shuffle (similar to Spencer's site) but I found a work around for them, in most cases.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:55, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I will follow up on an archiveurl for Kimball's Ayers Rock entry soon. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 23:42, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
I have archived Kimball's Ayers Rock entry at WebCite, and I think it went well. I have changed the specific ref accordingly. I prefer to name only Kimball, because he is really the author. Have a look, and let me know what you think. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 09:59, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
In order to maintain wp's neutrality any input by Burton and Loughnan should be acknowledged at this source. K provides, "Many thanks to Ray Burton and Col Loughnan." I took this to mean co-authoring, but I can now see a case for others=Ray Burton (contributor), Col Loughnan (contributor) being added after author, instead. Once they have their own articles, these should be wikilinked.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:39, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree that Burton and Loughnan were contributors, and the current presentation of that ref is pretty close to perfect. That was my first archiveurl, and I'm pleased with it. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 07:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Kelton and Wikidata[edit]

I've had a long look at Wikidata, and I'm not quite getting the idea regarding how it helps me with the reference to the Kelton article. At the moment, I can't work out where in the Wikimedia foundation I can host the scan of the article, since it contains non-free content. Do I need to archive it on an external site, and then try to link that to an Ayers Rock page on Wikidata?

Alternatively, can you find out the exact release date of the US pressing of “Beyond”, please? Kelton says he wrote that article just after the US release. That info would enable me to do a more intensive search of The Advertiser in the library. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 00:53, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Difficult, A&M discography has this but I can't see page nos nor dates.
New West entry has: "NILS LOFGREN. His new album is Cry Tough. And Rolling Stone says he lives up to the title. See Nils live it out at THE ROXY, JUNE 7-8. With AYERS ROCK. Up from Down Under with their new album, "Beyond!' ON A&M RECORDS ..." here. This seems to indicate it was out before June. It further verifies that they backed Lofgren.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:27, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
According to M: "Beyond (April 1976) gave rise to two unsuccessful singles, 'Little Kings' / 'Get Out to the Country' (October 1975) and 'Song for Darwin' / 'Place to Go' (May 1976). That same month, Ayers Rock returned to the USA to promote Beyond." Which means they're back in the US in May.
The article currently has Beyond released in US at same time as in Oz, ie April 1976.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:51, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
According to Kent (via Gary Lyon aka bulion) here, Beyond entered the KMR Albums Chart on 5 April 1976 (and remained in top 100 for 11 weeks).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:12, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

As for scanning and wikidata usage – I'm worse off than you – I've never tried! My suggestion is to ping @User talk:David Gerard – he might be able to clue us in?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:38, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all of that. I'll get it one way or another. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 08:28, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Removed small quote[edit]

The sentence: 'On 18 October, The Sun reported that McGuire had left the band because he had not "had a holiday for 12 years".' is factually inaccurate, and misrepresents the article it is drawn from. The article does not link McGuire's temporary absence from the band to the fact that 'he had not "had a holiday for 12 years".' Instead the article quotes verbatim McGuire's explanation of how and why he was unable to play to a professional standard in the studio, as we have also. Later, the article says: "Duncan said he plans to take a few weeks off. 'I haven't had a holiday for 12 years. After that I don't know what I'll do ...". McGuire goes on to explain a number of options open to him after he has had a break. So, the quote: "I haven't had a holiday for 12 years" is an aside, stated in the context of what he plans to do next, and nothing to do with leaving the band, and I have simply removed it. The process of copyediting, and then copyediting again can introduce inaccuracy; a fact we need to bear in mind as we strive to create the very best encyclopedic content. End of sermon. CaesarsPalaceDude (talk) 21:40, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ayers Rock (band)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Peripitus (talk · contribs) 11:24, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I've corrected a few minor copyediting issues. Overall this is a well written, engaging and quality article.

  • Article is well written and meets all of the WP:MOS requirements
  • It's well referenced, the referenced I've followed support the article text, and the references are of good quality.
  • It's sufficiently broad and also seems for me to sufficiently well be self-explanatory. The only thing I had to go elsewhere to fully understand it was to google "Reefer Cabaret"...the 70s was an interesting place.
  • It's neutral and stable.
  • Images, with one exception are fine. I'm not convinced that File:Concert Ayers Rock Bangladesh.jpg is necessary when we have the free image File:Band Ayers Rock2.jpg, especially as the former is some unrecognizable people on stage, and the band changed lineup over their life. However this is not sufficient for me to make an issue of but I expect that if you submit this for FA it may be - Peripitus (Talk) 11:24, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


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