Talk:Béla IV of Hungary

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King of Serbia?[edit]

Why are Bela IV and succeeding Hungarian kings called the kings of Serbia in the table beneath? In fact they were kings of Croatia, not Serbia.--Muarrih (talk) 17:17, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Because of the title. --SavoRastko (talk) 22:03, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Untitled[edit]

This part has been deleted, but should be put somewhere (probably into an article about the woman in question):

Her daughter, Margaret (Margit) (1242–1270) mostly lived on Margaret Island, which was later named after her. She was canonized in 1943.

Adam78 18:18, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen any mention of a daughter, known alternately as Jolenta, Yolande, Helen, or Ilona, a.k.a. "St. ~ of Hungary" or "St. ~ of Poland". She was wife to Boleslaus of Greater Poland, and recently canonized by John-Paul II. Anyone have any [reliable] info on her?SigPig 03:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC) Ooops, my bad, I was confusing her with Kunegunde. She's still "Blessed". SigPig 03:57, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Hungarian names for places before 1867[edit]

As the official language of the Kingdom of Hungary was Latin until 1867 [1], using Hungarian names for cities etc. before this date is anachronistic. Since the Latin name that was used at the time can scarcely be found, we should list all the places with their modern names.Wladthemlat (talk) 16:37, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Only some nobles and clergy could speak Latin - the common language of the people was of course Magyar. HammerFilmFan (talk) 07:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Sabina and Moys[edit]

Szabina, wife of Mózes (Majos/Majs/Mojs/Moys), Palatine of Hungary (? – 1280)[3][4][5] and the References

3 # ^ Gyula Pauler, A Magyar Nemzet Története: Az Árpádházi Királyok Alatt, Vol. 2., Athenaeum, 1899. Page 321

4 # ^ Gyula Pauler, A Magyar Nemzet Története: Az Árpádházi Királyok Alatt, Vol. 2., Athenaeum, 1899. Page 531

5 # ^ Mór Wertner, Az Árpádok Családi Története, Pleitz Fer. Pál könyvnyomdája, 1892. Page 606 have a lot of problem!

I have locking about this information. It is NOT TRUE!!!

The book: Gyula Pauler, A Magyar Nemzet Története: Az Árpádházi Királyok Alatt, Vol. 2., Athenaeum, 1899.

http://www.archive.org/details/amagyarnemzettr00paulgoog

On the Page 321 - is not Sabina or Szabina

On Page 531 is a person with the name: Moyz as he wer a saracen person.

BUT!!!: On the Page 686 is the information:

--IV Bela hasn't got a dauther with the name Sabina.

-- the citat of this page: Page 686 / 801 ^**' ..... " A Vita s Kingae said also (Mon. Pol. IV. 684.) IV Bela has only six — means adult girl — dauchter. About Erzsebet W. III. 205. Our writers are thinkin that IV. Bela had yet a dauter named "Sabina", They are thinkinig that this woman was the wife of the II. Majs Palatine . IV. László's document (CD. V/3. 78.) tsoror nostra carissima> must not means ount. In the origin decument (DL. 1092.)is not the name " Sabina "; This name has someone wiseacre person arbitrarily push in it when he . descripted it. II. Majs wife's name was Erzsébet (Nyelvemléktár VII. 6ö.); Majs daughter , was 44 year old when she in year 1276 about the holiness of Szent Margit confissed, that means she was born in year 1232 (u. o. 5ö.). If we presuppose that Masjs daughter were from an other wife, then she cannot to be dauter of IV Bela, becose the IV Bela was in year 1932 same 26 year old. Wertner M. has also good thinking, that he wife of II. Majs can not to be the daughter of IV Bela. He writes in her book (The family History of Arpads) Az Árpádok családi története 606. s kk. 11., about Sabina, but in this time he can not to know, that the name Sabina is a poor fudge. ...."

5 ^ Mór Wertner, Az Árpádok Családi Története, Pleitz Fer. Pál könyvnyomdája, 1892. Page 606

I found this book not online.

But, I found the book: Mór Werthner, IV Béla története (The history of IV Bela) Published 1893 Csanád-Egyházmegyei Könyvsajtó in Temesvár.

http://openlibrary.org/works/OL15481016W/Negyedik_B%C3%A9la_kir%C3%A1ly_t%C3%B6rt%C3%A9nete

In this book isn't the name Sabina!!!

IV Bela's timelife:

1206 Nov. was born IV Bela (page 8)

1206 was born Mária Laskaris of Nikäai (was the daughter of Greak Emperor of nikäa and Armenian princess )

1214 was killed the mother of IV Bela - Gisella (page 9)

1218 engagement between IV Bela and Maria Laskaris (page 13)

1220 or1221 merried IV Bela and Maria Laskaris

1224 was born daughter Kinga,

???? was born daughter Margit (older), -

???? was born daughter Katalin,

???? was born daughter Anna,

1235 was IV Bela the Hungarian king.

???? was born daughter Erzsébet,

???? was born daughter Konstancia,

1239 was born son V. István, (page 39)

1239 married Kinga with V. Boleslav (Polski)

1241-1242 was the Mongol invasion

1241 The King family must also to escape. Thay was in Spalato, Vorossa, Klissa, Trau ...

1242 In the town Klis died daughter Katalin.

1242 In the town Klis died also daughter Margit (the older) who was engagemented with Szent Omeri Vilmos (Page 110)

1242 Thay are burial in Spalato.

1242 The mother Maria Lasaris was expectant with Margit (the younger), in Klis. Margit (the younger) was leter a nun.

1243 merried Anna with Rosztiszláv the princ of Kiev and of Holics

1243 was born son Béla,

1244 was born daughter Jolan.

1247 merried Erzsébet with Henrik prinz of Bavaria

1251 merried Konstancia with Leo the dauphin of Holics

1269 had died son Bela

1270 had died IV Bela the King

1270 had died the wife of IV Bela - Mária Laskaris

1271 had died daughter Margit (the younger), the nun.

1271 had died daughter Erzsébet (the wife of Henrik prinz of Bavaria.)

1272 had died son V. István

In this book isn't the name Sabina!!! There is the name Moys in it:

1217 Moys (leter the Palatine) was together with King II. András in the rusade (Page 13)

1226 Moys (leter the Palatine) (camerarius) of Bela princess , main steward of Somogy and Varasd (Page 151)

1251 Moys was (agazo; agasonum regalium magister), who is one of ancestors of Family (Page 207)

1254 Moys was (agazo; agasonum regalium magister), who is main steward of Győr (Page 207)

1260 Moys is the (camerarius) of Bela princess , who is one ancestor of Family Dárói ( died in year 1280). He is main steward of Somogy and Varasd (Page 206).

1269 /partly/ is the Palatin Moys the son of Moys past Palatines. Thy are two ancestors of Family Dárói (Page 199)

1270 is the Palatin Moys the main steward of Sopron (Page 199)

Wein Sarolta (talk) 08:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Clearly hungarian person[edit]

I would like to dispute the claim that he was a "clearly Hungarian person" as Hobartimus is claiming in the edit summaries, a brief look at the family tree shows, that he was son of Gertrude of Merania and grandson of Agnes_of_Antioch, therefore this claim is mistaken. Not to mention that no nation in the modern (and German) sense of the word existed in the 13th century. Wladthemlat (talk) 15:05, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

He was a direct descendent of Árpád, I don't know how could anyone get more Hungarian than that and being the legitimate King of Hungary, and 'second founder of Hungary' also I would think help him a little. Of course in the context being Hungarian it's not really a blood related thing (where you have to have certain % of ancestors, that's another system...) but more of a common sense circumstance as well. But I guess that phrasing depends somewhat on good faith (meaning reasonable people wouldn't start questioning clearly Slovak, or Hungarian persons, would make them fit the definition of "clearly". So if you want to dispute it, you can of course, in that case, or if he was a clearly Slovak person the order would change to Slovakname (Hungarianname) at the first occurance and Slovakname the following times a name appears. Hobartimus (talk) 17:49, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

facts related to the battles with the Mongols are erroneous[edit]

Bela could only lead a "small army" at Mohi?? NOPE. The combined Cuman-Hungarian force was quite large and was almost wiped out to the last man. Also, the Mongols left the area because Batu and Subedai had to attend the kuraltai that was called in Mongolia following the death of the Great Khan Ogedai; to think that they were militarily defeated is complete nonsense. The Mongols devastated Hungary and that part of the Balkans that they entered. They were about to take Vienna when the word arrived that they had to return to Mongolia. I'll correct these problems in the article later in the week via Reliable Sources. HammerFilmFan (talk) 15:14, 28 August 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

His legacy[edit]

I remember someone asking for a translation of the inscription:

Behold something dear: Three surround the altar of the Virgin:
A king, a duke and a queen. Let threefold joys be with them.
While it was granted, while your sway, King Béla, was strong,
Fraud hid away, peace was firm, integrity reigned.

The meter of the Latin text is hexametric, with internal rhymes. Feel free to polish up my translation and insert it in the article if appropriate. Dumbox (talk) 08:17, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Béla IV of Hungary/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jonas Vinther (talk · contribs) 14:57, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Well-written Symbol support vote.svg

a. the prose is clear and concise, it respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct

b. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation

The article is well-written indeed. I made some minor changes per MOS:DATEFORMAT. Otherwise, the article is well-written. Very impressive.
  • Verifiable with no original research Symbol support vote.svg

a. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline

b. It provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines

c. It contains no original research

The article uses book and journal sources, all of which are listed and contain the necessary source or reference information. However, I would I suggest listing Scoble's book under the "Sources" section and then use Harvard references, like the rest of the article does.
  • Broad in its coverage Symbol support vote.svg

a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic

b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail

The article is nicely broad in its coverage, stays on topic and does not go into unnecessary detail.
  • Neutral Symbol support vote.svg

It represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each

The article is neutral and does not include personal opinions or statements.
  • Stable Symbol support vote.svg

It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute

The article is stable, its content does not change significantly from day to day, and is not the subject of edit wars or content disputes. However, I would suggest blocking or throw yet another edit warning to 68.104.190.37 to prevent him or her from editing this page in case edits like this occur again.
  • Illustrated Symbol support vote.svg

a. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content

b. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions

The article is nicely illustrated with a total of fourteen images all of which contain the necessary information. The bulk of the images are public domains and uploaded to Commons.
  • Pass, fail or hold? Symbol support vote.svg
With the article meeting the GA-criteria I'm going to pass it. Excellent job people. :) Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 15:57, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Image templates[edit]

Borsoka, the article has some template problems which I missed in my GA-review that needs to be fixed.

  • File:Ondra Gertruda.jpg
  • File:AlzbetaKumanska kralovna.jpg
  • File:Bela4 pecet3.jpg

These three images have broken templates. Can you fix it, please? Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 14:04, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

Jonas Vinther, thank you very much for your message. I approached a fellow editor for assistance, because I am unable to deal with these issues. He has always helped. Borsoka (talk) 14:28, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
That sounds great, Borsoka, I would just appreciate it this happened A.S.A.P. Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 15:11, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
And Borsoka, please message me when it's done. Thanks so much. Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 16:14, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
I jumped in and corrected them. Qorilla (talk) 18:19, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Jonas Vinther, Fakirbakir also informed me that the problem was fixed. Borsoka (talk) 04:36, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Excellent job people. :) Jonas Vinther (speak to me!) 05:55, 16 October 2014 (UTC)