Talk:Baibars

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Circassian[edit]

Circassians are not of Turkic origin. Circassians are ethnic of Turkey. 'Turkish' mean.. Turk of Turkey.. Turkey's Turks are Oghuz-Kipchak Turkic people" people of Turkey are %50 Ethnic .. TURANIA <- Map of TURKIC(HUN) PEOPLE

TURKIC(HUN) people : Finns, Magyars(Hungarians),Letonians,Estonians,Lithuanians,Turkmens,Central Asian-Turkey-Caucasian Turkic people. etc..

- - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.142.170 (talk) 08:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

  • People who are of Turkic/Turkish etnicity are 85% of modern Turkey's population. They are more than 60 million in the land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.173.66.247 (talk) 19:22, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Assessment POV[edit]

The beginning of this section seems to be a wikipedian coming to some random conclusion on how "remarkable" this guy is, and being a "product of his time". He may or may not be, I donno. But I suggest this gets removed, or replaced by a prominent source. The second half seems to have some useful information. Ash Lux 07:58, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Cause of Death[edit]

Based on the linked sources, Baibars had a very interesting cause of death (incidental ingestion of poison). I would add something about this but I feel a little ill-informed in these areas to make a modification. Can a more knowledgable Wikipedian add a line or two regarding the cause of death? Thanks. :Leeannedy 22:26, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I just added a preliminary section on that. Hopefully someone later can come forward with some better sources than mine (which are all tertiary sources). --Politizer (talk) 15:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Haroun Of Baghdad[edit]

Removed this line Haroun of Baghdad is based on baibar.Haroun of Bagdhdad in Arabian Nights is based on real caliph haroun Rasheed...

See "The Crusades" by Harold Lamb for a different opinion. The description of supposedly eighth century Bagdad in Arabian Nights is obviously thirteenth century or later Cairo.

Protected[edit]

I have protected this because the current edit war is pointless and annoying. Please solve your problems here. Adam Bishop 23:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I think a temporary protection for this page was necessary. In fact there are two sources given about the ethnicity of Baibars in the article, namely Britannica and Columbia Encyclopedia references. What they cite about his ethnic origin is that he was Turkic. Everyone can read those references.
Chapultepec 23:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't think CoCoWaWa speaks English... Khoikhoi 19:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, at least I can say I tried to discuss... Khoikhoi 16:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: attempts to communicate with said user are responded in this. Khoikhoi 16:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

BAIBARS and TURKIC(HUN People)[edit]

Baibars was a Blue Eyed, and Brunette(reason : climate)'Kipchak TURK(HUN)'. he was taken prisoner from Deshti-Kipchak(Caucasia).. and have been sold as a slave to Arabs.. BAIBARS Before the slave, then became Sultan-Emperor..only been able to do this "TURK(HUN)people" in the world. TURKIC(HUN)people created by the GOD "Superior-Warrior-Super Nationalist_Racist_Turk women are very high Virginity Honorable" TURKIC(HUN) people are Barbarian.. for example : HUN-MONGOL Invasions..but not mongolian slant-eyed. they are HUN(TURKIC) .. TURKs are sons of Islam Prophet Ibrahim..arab-hebrew-HUN(TURK) .. ALLAH(GOD) told the prophet İbrahim : I will make you a great nation" .. they are not arabs or hebrew.. hebrews are cursed horny tribe and arabs are bigoted.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.65.242.128 (talk) 17:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

Have you ever read the references?
--Chapultepec 18:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Baibars is considered as one of the greatest circassian in history, in most of the circassian, arabic and many turkish history books he considered as a circassian. Even his look is more circassian than a turkish one (circassian have bright skin and hair while turkish are from mongol origin).
have you ever read descriptions of kipchaks in history? and do mongols have brown skin? wtf? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.175.230 (talk) 13:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I haven't seen any Turkish books regarding Baibars as a Circassian nor the other the sources.
And authoritative sources like Britannica and Columbia encyclopedia reads that he was Turkic.
As for the Arab sources please read this one:
The Cambridge History of Islam By P. M. ( Peter Malcolm) Holt, Bernard Lewis
--Chapultepec 18:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Baibars was a Kipchak Turk; even his name is poof enough. His name is in old Turkic language, not in Circassian. Meaning of his name: bay(bey) means lord or senior, bars(pars) means panther or leopard. I know contemporary Circassians consider him their great national hero icon but this does not make him Circassian. There are many examples like that: Kurds, Arabs and Turks all consider Salahaddin-i Eyyubi was from their nationality; modern english people see Rchard the Lionheart as their national hero but he was french and he couldn't even speak a word of english; etc....Isatay 07:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Please remember Baibars was the sultan of Egypt. I do not understand Circassians or others consider him their great national hero.Samsam22 01:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
He was a mameluk not an Egyptian(aka Coptic), greek and surely not an Arab, he can be Turkic or Caucacian, but the fact is he just happened to have millions of Egyptian and arab slaves, get on with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.108.19.229 (talk) 19:54, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
many circassians were mamlukes too, and the true name of beibars is "pei pas" means in circassian language "ambush the enemy" or "wait the enemy" somehting like that, and it is known that there were another beibars, but that is known for sure that he was circassian, so how come that two sultans with the same name come from totally different origins? if beibars is a name of turks then why the other beibars had it?. well this is something we must check, if beibars was a circassian or not, because it is a fact that beibars was kiddnaped from the area of north west caucasus and balck sea, where is circassians homeland is situated, and it is known that area was occupied then by kypchak tribes, so it could be that beibars was circassian who were kiddnaped from that area and is known in these days as a kypchak because of the occupied areas of balck sea and caucasus by the kypchaks, and people belive that he came from kypchaks.Andynapso (talk) 17:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Baybars was from the Bahri dynasty. That means he was of Kipchak (Turkic) origin. There is no discussion on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.179.96.190 (talk) 01:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Slavery[edit]

I think this slavery box misshaping the page of Baibars. It has no direct connection to Baibars. Please consider that. Thank you. Samsam22 11:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC) This template was placed by an editor on August 29, 2007. For me it's a little bit overstated as well, I agree with you. So, for the moment I'm removing the template from the article. Any objections welcome! --Chapultepec 11:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Expanding Baibars Article[edit]

We should expand article of Baibars. What do you think ? Samsam22 (talk) 17:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Name[edit]

Adam change seems ok , though readers will think that all sultans were named al-Malik since birth . Anyway, I think the most important that we have same name ( spelling )of each sultan on all pages. Thnx Samsam22 (talk) 21:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Was there some discussion about this somewhere else? The English name is Baybars, not Baibars. Google brings in 160k to 40k, and most of the 40k are going to be copies or references to this page here on wiki. Why did we do this? Seems like original research, or at least ignoring WP:NAME. [edit: I actually am curious and it's cool if there is a concensus, but no one noticed that every source for this article uses Baybars with the y?] -LlywelynII (talk) 13:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Google Books has it about equal; Baybars 1,363 to Baibars 1,039. Numerous scholarly books about the crusades use Baibars (although many use Baybars instead, of course). In this case I don't think it really matters. The Arabic diphthong in question can be transliterated either way. It can be transliterated even as -ei or -ey, and Google shows that Beibars and Beybars are also sometimes used. Some other languages even use Bajbars or Bejbars. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Better wording[edit]

Right Chapultepec. I just added it as notice till we expand and fix this article. By the way I started an article about Lajin and corrected his name. When I am ready I will move to Baibars. Samsam22 (talk) 22:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem, we have enough time, no need to hurry. Yavash yavash.. =) --Chapultepec (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Coinage[edit]

Baybars dinar, 1260-1277.

Here's a coin of Baybars. Feel free to insert it in the article. Cheers PHG (talk) 20:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC) Better image PHG (talk) 20:20, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Clean-up lead[edit]

I recently made an edit in an attempt to fix a malformed sentence in the lead of the article. See here. The sentence is currently "Baibars or Baybars (Arabic: الملك الظاهر ركن الدين بيبرس البندقداري‎‎, al-Malik al-Ẓāhir Rukn al-Din Baibars al-Bunduqdar),Baibars was Kipchak Turk origin , nicknamed Abu al-Futuh and Abu l-Futuhat, which means Father of Conquests, pointing to his victories .(literally "The father of conquest"; Arabic: أبو الفتوح) (1223 – 1 July 1277), was the fourth Sultan of Egypt from the Mamluk Bahri dynasty."

To be blunt, that's an abomination of the English language. There's a random sentence "Baibars was Kipchak Turk origin" inserted as a grammatically incorrect clause, information about "father of conquests" is repeated, and "pointing to his victories" makes the sentence run-on unnecessarily long. I propose changing it to: "Baibars or Baybars (Arabic: الملك الظاهر ركن الدين بيبرس البندقداري‎‎, al-Malik al-Ẓāhir Rukn al-Din Baibars al-Bunduqdar), nicknamed Abu al-Futuh and Abu l-Futuhat (literally "The father of conquest"; Arabic: أبو الفتوح) (c. 1223 – 1 July 1277), was the fourth Sultan of Egypt from the Mamluk Bahri dynasty."

This trims down the sentence to a reasonable size and corrects the grammatical errors I noted above. Thoughts? ~ RobTalk 20:13, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Judging from the other articles concerning Bahri dynasty sultans, your revised version looks good to me. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:30, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
This was now reverted by HistoryofIran. It looks like there's consensus for this edit, with the only dissenting editor being the IP that reverted it originally. ~ RobTalk 20:11, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
I would suspect the IP is actually a blocked user. So their opinion is unimportant. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:16, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
I strongly support the clean ups of the article. i think the revertion doesnt make sense 139.0.83.147 (talk) 20:03, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

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