Talk:Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

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Good article Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
January 30, 2013 Good article nominee Listed

Release Date[edit]

(moved to bottom; old threads should be at the top, new threads at the bottom). –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Voting[edit]

After looking at the prominent npc's i think what would be a good addition to the list if we add the "half" charater known as... Lilarcor: the Sentient Sword.

i've came up with reasons why he should be added:

1.Since the list has some important and unimportant characters, lilarcor would be perfect.

2. If you do the quest, equip him to a fighter, he can talk to you.

3. He is (in the game) more important then Amaunator.

what do you think?

Pece Kocovski 08:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I would say sure, go ahead! The Lilarcor article isn't linked to anywhere, so that would be good I think. Poulsen 10:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Is there any fansites for this game?[edit]

I don't see any in the links place, there has to be someplace that has more help and information on the game.

Google is your friend. Wikipedia tries to be an encyclopedia, not a place for lists of fansite links. Poulsen 10:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

GameFAQs is a good source for help and information, but I think a section about the mod community and possibly links to some of the more notable mods (tutu, etc) would be a good addition. 138.110.215.33 19:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Basic info on mods can be found in the Baldur's Gate series article. Poulsen 22:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

There definitely needs to be a sub-section/link to a notable mods section. H

I found tis site on google <<http://www.planetbaldursgate.com/>>

Xp? Vista? Windows 7?[edit]

Someone said he worked this game on Xp but that isn't confirmed in this article so do we need to put this information here? Daniel no

It works fine in XP, and in Vista too! (just play it as administrator in compatibility mode, you get this right clicking in the icon)

It works just fine. The add/remove programs app in the control panel doesn't recognize the installation that well, but it works. --Russoc4 (talk) 12:29, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

The game works fine on Windows 7 (without compatibility mode), even with 64-bit architecture. Hagen 19:36, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Interface[edit]

Block quote

I seem to be having a problem with the interface,for some reason,after i return from the pause screen,i only have a few seconds to use anything on the shortcuts,such as a spell,hiding in the shadows,guarding,and playing bard song,also,after that time is up,if im doing anything that requires a shortcut to be clicked,such as detecting traps,it will stop,does anyone know if this is a bug or is this just the way the interface is designed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.156.48.83 (talk) 21:09, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

NPC's[edit]

why does the NPC table inclued Lilarcor and Amaunator? They are not of any importance if they are added why not add tazok if we relly need a list of people in the game it would need it's own page. Not that there is anything wrong with that;) 30/september/07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.228.133 (talk) 07:28, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I've only played it once, but as I don't remember any of these names, is it possible importance is matter of in-game choices and possibly even real-world sensibilities? Add characters you like, when it gets unwieldy - a new page. We've got until the end of time, right? People still enjoy isometric stuff... I'd have played it at all if my laptop wasn't terrible... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:630:E4:42FD:FE5F:4BF0:9B16:5F4C (talk) 17:55, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Lord Foreshadow[edit]

I have fixed the tidbit under trivia, as Lord Foreshadow hinted at Neverwinter, not Athkatla. --58.165.106.163 (talk) 16:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

He actually also hints at Neverwinter AND Athkatla...Dialogue as follows.
"....I'll have to look into such sundries when I next attend one of Lord Ribald's full dress costume affairs. I'd be the talk of Neverwinter, I would." "Lord" Ribald could be referring to Ribald Barterman, who is in Athkatla in BG2.
"....I do, however, make a point of keeping in touch with Neverwinter, though I have only visited once previously. It was quite popular in those nights, if I recall correctly. I'm going to make a second trip in the coming year, and I'll wager it will be as popular again." This probably is referring both the 1991 release of Neverwinter Nights and the plans for continuing the series to a newer release.
"....I have busied myself with destinations more distant, and have traveled to the great city of Athkatla on one occasion or another. You should really consider visiting there sometime. 'Tis likely to be very popular in the future." Indisputably a reference to Athkatla, where BG2 is set.
There's another bit of foreshadowing in the second area of the Cloakwoods, in the spider's den. The improbably fat woman Centeol is initially hostile, but under certain circumstances (I think charming her with Charm Person was one; I forget), she can be persuaded to speak at length.
"The archmage, Jon Irenicus, cursed me for indignities done to him and his wife by me. I loved Jon, but now I hate him, as I hate you and everything."
I seem to recall that there was also some foreshadowing of some sort in the Nashkel graveyard, but am not certain about that.
On the other hand, I'm reluctant to stick all this in the trivia section because that section already looks a little unwieldy to me; it really should be broken down and integrated as relevant. Coanda-1910 (talk) 07:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Userbox[edit]

Available here if anyone's interested. Just add {{User:Chensiyuan/Userboxes/Baldur's Gate II}} Chensiyuan (talk) 15:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Opinions[edit]

This article includes a lot of opinion that appears not to match Wikipedia's article standards. I would recommend a tagging for re-writing in an objective fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.197.84 (talk) 18:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Agree with this. I added a tone tag to the offending section. - superβεεcat  18:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Release date[edit]

(moved from top). –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The opening paragraph's release date is not consistent with the one in the sidebar. Which one is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.169.0 (talk) 16:56, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I will look into this as I work on the article; if you have any more information on the dates, feel free to add it. Thanks! –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Reference material[edit]

Found these in the Online print archive:

Might find more to add later. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 05:02, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!  :) 108.69.80.49 (talk) 08:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aircorn (talk · contribs) 05:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Loved this game. Will try and review it for you over the next few days. AIRcorn (talk) 05:31, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

  • The Shadow Thieves, the Cowled Wizards, and the Harpers all factor prominently into the story and provide side quests Who are the Harpers?
  • Baldur's Gate II is set in the year 1369 DR (Dale Reckoning),[46] and thus takes place not long after the Time of Troubles (1358 DR), when the Tablets of Fate were stolen and the gods walked the land as mortals This could maybe do with a bit more context. What does the Tablets of Fate have to do with this game? Same with the time of troubles. Not too much, but maybe a sentence or two.
Still not sure what Tablets of Fate means or how it applies. Redirects to Time of Troubles so that is not much help. AIRcorn (talk) 07:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I took another crack at it. It's a bit tricky because the point of the background is that Bhaal created his spawn in anticipation of his death, but it's tough to know how much to put in setting and how much to put in character without getting too much repetition either. I can jiggle it around some more if necessary. —Torchiest talkedits 22:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Bhaal, the god of murder, foresaw the Time and its leading to his destruction, and walked the land before it began A bit repetitive with the precedeing sentence.
  • Baldur's Gate follows their adventure along the Sword Coast, where the hero learns of their heritage, and defeats their half-brother Sarevok, a fellow child of Bhaal. This would be better if it was made obvious it was talking about the first game. The follows their adventure is a bit easter eggish too.
  • The hero escapes from the complex with some of their companions, This doesn't work. Needs another gender neutral term or at worst his/her companions.
  • In Athkatla, the party receives assistance from its chosen allies Can this have more context? Should mention something about raising the money and building a party.
    With some help from BOZ, I think all of these points have been addressed now. Thanks for taking the time to review this btw. —Torchiest talkedits 16:50, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  • The guidelines paragraph of the development section is a little hard to follow. It doesn't really say what the guidelines are, except for level design.
  • Not too keen on the Amazon source. Found a discussion here regarding a simnilar issue, which is mixed but has enough opposition that I would be more comfortable with another source (should be easy to find).
  • Some more references are needed for the re-releases.
  • I have a personal bugbear about overquotations used in reception sections. They tend to be repetitive and add to article bloat. There is also a cherry picking element to it. In this article this section has four and a bit paragraphs basically consisting of reviewer quotes. To be quite honest it is a hard slog to read and not the greatest way to present information as it tends to obscure the bigger picture (i.e. what the theme of the reception is). Would it be possible to paraphrase this section better, I wouldn't object to a few quotes but it would read better coming in you own words. It will also mean any quotes used will not be lost in the noise.
  • The Best Dungeons & Dragons game ever made Should the B in Best be capitalised. Can't access the source to see if this is the case. AIRcorn (talk) 11:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I've addressed everything above except for a couple points: I haven't been able to find a reliable non-Amazon source for that one re-release yet. I don't have a copy of the Game Informer magazine either, but I'm going to guess it probably shouldn't be capitalized. I'm still working on paraphrasing the reception section. —Torchiest talkedits 17:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I did a major overhaul of the reception section, so everything (except the Amazon ref) should be fixed now. Cheers. —Torchiest talkedits 18:50, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

References[edit]

I am a little worried that this might be a bit close to the source. AIRcorn (talk) 02:22, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

  • From this article

an area is mapped out and described by designers; an isometric concept of the level is drawn by a concept artist; the level's models are made; models are placed in the level and textured; smaller objects are placed in the level, its lighting is done, and any final tweaks are completed; the level is given to the designers, and clipping, luminosity, height, and search map features are added; creatures, items, traps, and triggers are added to the level; and its scripting is completed

  • From the source
  1. Designers map out an area and write up a description.
  2. Concept artist draws an isometric concept of the level.
  3. Models are created for the level.
  4. Models are placed within the level and then textured.
  5. The level is dressed with smaller objects (barrels and chairs). Lighting is done for the level, and then any final tweaks are completed.
  6. The art piece is given to the designers so that the clipping, luminosity, height and search map can all be done.
  7. Creatures, items, traps and triggers are all added to the level.
  8. The scripting for the level is completed.


  • Whew, that is pretty close. In my defense, that part was in the article before I worked on it. :) I'll mix it up a bit. —Torchiest talkedits 02:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Rewritten, hopefully it's still true to the source but distinct in terminology. —Torchiest talkedits 03:13, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
  • There are a few references to Shadows of Amn, Protagonist's Biography., Shadows of Amn, Imoen's Biography, Shadows of Amn, Chapter I etc. I take it this is referring to the game itself. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that, but was wondering if there was a better way to present the cite (I was looking for the book I thought it was going to link to in the biography). If you use {{Cite video game}} then it might make it more obvious. AIRcorn (talk) 07:03, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
  • I converted the references to that template and expanded the image rationale a bit. —Torchiest talkedits 14:22, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Criteria[edit]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
    Very happy with this
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    One issue with a citation style, but spot checking of the manual and a few other online source showed no more close paraphrasing or addition of information not being covered by the source.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
    File:BG2DlgImoen.png is a bit dark, but I see that is covered by the other image. I guess it could be a argued that a clear screenshot of the interface is possible and would negate this rational. I don't think it is an issue with a GA, although if you want to strengthen it some you could add more to the purpose (maybe that the interface itself takes up a lot of the screen).
  7. Overall: Will hold for now, but is really close to passing
    Pass/Fail:

Release date conflict[edit]

So it appears that there are reliable sources claiming different release dates.

We are claiming September 24, which is also what appears at CNET, however both Amazon (the site that we cite the release date from) and IGN claim that it was released on September 22nd. What to do? Sven Manguard Wha? 23:43, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Gamespot and Metacritic both say Sept. 24. Gamespy says Sept. 22. I'd tend to trust Gamespot's date, as they were one of the few video game site around back then. Also, there is another listing for BG2 at Amazon here that says Sept 26, which makes me doubt their reliability. —Tourchiest talkedits 04:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Directors or not[edit]

The sources need a better reading. Maybe they can not be labeled as "directors" but their contribution is shown very well:

  • Chris Avellone - thanks to penning and designing large portions of games like the Baldur's Gate series (including the first console version, the blackberries decidedly action-driven Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance) 1
  • Feargus Urquhart - a surge That started with the original Fallout and its sequel, then progressed - in remarkably rapid-fire succession - through games like Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate series (developed by BioWare under the guidance of Black Isle). 2

So not only it is historically recognized their contribution but also the contribution of Black Isle itself (the game in fact is published by Black Isle and Interplay). They were central figure of RPG games, in those years, especially Avellone, if they can not be labeled as directors, then it goes recognized their contribution as designers. Also where is the source that says that James Ohlen is the director? 82.49.196.107 (talk) 05:42, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

None of that mentions this game. 73.168.15.161 (talk) 12:20, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
73.168 is correct. To list them with a specific credit for BGII, you need it explicitly stated in the source. Unfortunately, the sources do not even directly mention BGII. There's nothing we can really say with these sources. Note that if the BGII credits mention them and their role, that's enough to put them in the infobox. Unfortunately I only own the Enhanced Edition and don't know if it includes the full original credits, but will try to check later today. -- ferret (talk) 12:54, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

You guys are probably right, thinking about "specifity". But it is true that both sources specify Baldur's Gates series and makes you think about all the series, so both chapters of the game. Add to this then when Baldur's Gate III, was cancelled, and they could not develop it, they left Black Isle. So, it is for sure, that they had their weight in the series; and "series" in fact, means all the chapters of the game.

I understand the problematic, also this is a good article so it would be wrong to report something that is not. But would be a shame to not give them the right contributions they gave. Checking in the game credits is a good move, but yes it is "Enhanced" so don't know how useful and "original" could be. 82.49.196.107 (talk) 16:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Your additions might be better served on the Baldur's Gate (series) article. 65.126.152.254 (talk) 22:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

BG2EE credits (which include original credits) lists Feargus as the "Black Isle Studios Division Director"... This isn't a creative credit so much as a company position, and wouldn't belong in the infobox. Avellone is not mentioned. The BGEE credits mention neither. Avellone's work seems to have been for Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (Where he is already listed in the Infobox). Feargus was the corporate director over Black Isle Studios and doesn't seem to be credited with any direct creative role for the games. As for the comment about James Ohlen, yes, he is directly credited as BG2's director of writing and design.-- ferret (talk) 23:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, strange. For sure the credits are the best source, but I don't think that IGN says bullshit. I mean: if Feargus is mentioned in the credits it would be something of value, and I think IGN is right saying that BGates series is made by BioWare under the guidance of Black Isle. But on the opposite is true that Feargus was in Black Isle, and not in BioWare. Maybe his work was "external"; important but external. Don't know. But, yes, give up and leave thing how they are. Even the thing about Avellone can't be done, since he is not even mentioned in the game-credits of BG2 and BG1.

About James Ohlen: ok he is the director but even writer and designer, but he is not mentioned in the "designer(s)" section of infobox, and even the "writer(s)" section is empty. Should be add? It can make the article more clear and fill empty section of infobox; maybe with a source that says that he is listed on the game-credits. 82.49.196.107 (talk) 02:11, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ohlen's official credits in BG2:
    • Director of Writing and Design (We would put this in the infobox as Director)
    • Original Baldur's Gate Game Design (We don't put this in the infobox here. He is already listed as designer as Baldur's Gate)
    • Manual Writing and Editing (Not something we put in the Infobox)
Reading over the three games, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, and Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, everything seems correct. Reading over Feargus Urquhart and Chris Avellone, they both seem to already be appropriately credited as well. -- ferret (talk) 12:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ok. I apologize I didn't know writer and design are put under "director". Anyway I recommend this new. It is about few days ago, it says that David Gaider moved to the team of Beamdog (those of Enhanced Editions, as I know). In his page he is already credited as contributor on BGII. Should be add in the infobox, as writer and designer? Maybe using this new as source? 82.49.196.107 (talk) 13:20, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

For BGII, David Gairder is listed as a "Designer". Kevin Martens is listed as "Lead Designer". Per the documentation rules of Template:Infobox video game, the infobox is correct in listing only Kevin Martens. For whatever reason, the BGII credits do not explicitly credit anyone as a "Writer", so we'll need to leave that field blank. I did add Mark Darrah, Ben Smedstad and Marcia Tofer to the infobox though, as they are directly credited as Lead Programmer, Producer and Art Director respectively. -- ferret (talk) 13:34, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Well, it seems my contribution here is useless, and I'm out of ideas. But afterall it is a good article, so it doesn't need help anyway. 82.49.196.107 (talk) 14:10, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

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