Talk:Barack Obama

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"First" or "only"?[edit]

This issue has been settled; "first" is correct. --MelanieN (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Someone has been changing "first African-American president" to "only African-American president" at this and several other articles. They claim in their edit summaries that there can't be a "first" until there is a "second". I am creating this section so they can explain their rationale and we can discuss it. --MelanieN (talk) 20:59, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Of course there can be a first without a second, and we don't engage in prediction which "only" suggests. See WP:CRYSTAL. Hillary CLinton would have been the first female president, and we would not refer to her as "only" - the fact of being the first is notable in and of itself. Tvoz/talk 02:27, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
That editor went from trying to justify it on a "there has to be another one", and then to something about royalty and I, II, etc...titles. Odd. ValarianB (talk)
@Tvoz: To me it appears the other way around. First suggests to me that we think their is another, and therefore that would be WP:crystal. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:33, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Definition of first is coming before all others in time or order; earliest; that means that until there's a second its not coming before all others in time or order and it's not earliest because there is nothing afterward once there is more than one then the one which came before is first. As in Genesis 1:5 And there was evening and there was morning, one day. It was only in Genesis 1:8 And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. why was the first called one day and not the first day because at the time there being only one day it was just the one day when there was a second day it became part of an order of days so was called a second day instead of two days AmYisroelChai (talk) 14:22, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

About "Genesis", just to point out: I don't know what translation you are using, but most translations say "and there was evening and there was morning, the first day."[4] --MelanieN (talk) 15:26, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
No. First simply means it has not happened before. Even if there is NEVER another, the first is still the first. "First" leaves open the possibility that there will be others (which only does not), but does not require that there be. --MelanieN (talk) 14:54, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm using the original Hebrew and there was evening and there was morning one day as אֶחָד echad translates as one, in Hebrew the word for first is רִאשׁוֹן rishon AmYisroelChai (talk) 17:42, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

And instead of just our opinions, let's look at what sources say.
  • "Obama" "first African-American president" : 397,000 Google hits
  • "Obama" "only African-American president" : 42,000 Google hits.
Clearly "first" is the preferred term. --MelanieN (talk) 15:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
"First" is appropriate here. "Only" may be the preference and POV of the editor making the change, but that is not our concern here (nor is the biblical meaning of "first" – we are editing the English encyclopedia). General Ization Talk 15:07, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
What certain translations of the bible say or do not say is getting a little tangential. The notion that usage of the word "first" is dependent on the existence of subsequent instances is so contrary to the English usage of the word that this discussion shouldn't need to take place. If "AmYisroelChai" is not a native speaker of English, perhaps I can understand the confusion here, but now that it is explained, that should be the end of it. ValarianB (talk) 18:27, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Just because people don't use proper English doesn't change the fact that first means first of many and not when there is only one.I don't actually care one way or the other.AmYisroelChai (talk) 21:11, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

No - there is nothing whatsoever in "first" that suggests first of many. You're defeating your own argument. Do you think you can't say "first" if there are only two? Really, this is not correct -it is not normal American English usage, and as MelanieN points out, sources overwhelmingly use "first". Do you think George Washington, in his day, was called the "only" American president? Tvoz/talk 21:37, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

he was just called the PresidentAmYisroelChai (talk) 14:55, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Unless someone wants to support AmYisroelChai's position let's just drop this semantics discussion. No one is supporting this other than AmYisroelChai, and I believe the change has been removed twice from each of Barack Obama, List of African-American United States presidential and vice presidential candidates, and List of African-American United States Senators. He was the first. He is currently also the only, the last, and the most recent, but all three of those descriptions are subject to change. Meters (talk) 21:50, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
Well, let's quote a dictionary before we’re done. New Oxford American Dictionary: "First: never previously done or occurring". There's no question: there can be a first without a second. - Nunh-huh 00:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

External links modified[edit]

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Funny nicknames and drove the former president of the United States. Appeared in the international press.[edit]

The topic can be interesting. But, it is necessary to qualitatively edit it. Here, for example. President of Russia German-speaking press calls "Skrutin." And, the Dutch-language press "Poutin".Klaus Brinkmäuer (talk) 15:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand. Are you suggesting for something to be added to this article about Barack Obama? --MelanieN (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

??? 63.92.233.233 (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Citation Errors[edit]

Hi there, I am a student doing an assignment on finding errors on Wikipedia pages. While reading your article, I realized that you did not properly cite the second paragraph in your article.

I also found that the third paragraph in your article is not properly cited. --Nums01 (talk) 17:57, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello, Nums01, and thanks for your observation. You are right of course, that those paragraphs are not cited. That's because they are part of the lead section (also called the lede). Our policy is that the lead section should briefly summarize the content of the article, with most of the details and references beinb given in the body of the article text rather than the lead. But thanks for being alert to this kind of thing, and if you find other errors in this article, please let us know here. --MelanieN (talk) 18:30, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2017[edit]

There are racial errors and but mostly just the latter. 1 Anonymous 1 (talk) 21:59, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. General Ization Talk 22:03, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
@1 Anonymous 1: I'm not sure what 'racial errors' means but your concern may be covered in the FAQ section at the top of this page. 331dot (talk) 22:05, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2017[edit]

116.255.35.4 (talk) 01:30, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)