Talk:Barcelona

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A few changes[edit]

I need to do some changes to added new information of Barcelona. I will delate 2 photos that i will put in the gallery tomorrow. --Arnau Poveda Mira (talk) 10:38, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

The changes made have been a lot more than what you promised here. You have made over 62 edits on today's date alone, with no edit summary and no further discussion in any talk page. This is a large, important article, currently rated B-class. Any edits made should be with an eye to improving the assessment given. With this much energy dedicated to improving the article, it should be Good Article or even Featured Article class by now. The kinds of edits I expect to see are: improving references and archiving news articles to avoid link rot. Copy-editing for proper English prose and flow of sentences. Looking for ways to split large sections into their own articles. Improving the quality of images. Now the kinds of edits made in the last couple of days have been: deleting images. Mangling prose and interspersing it with image files. Moving whitespace around so it looks like vast paragraphs have been changed, but really the changes are minimal. Please discuss further what improvements can be made to the article and what we can do to make this a Good Article in the near future. Elizium23 (talk) 00:30, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

A short review: From what I've reviewed, most of the changes are inconsequential at best but, quite frankly, it would be difficult to make the article worse. Currently the article reads as a (poorly written) travel guide and makes glowing assertions that, as far as I can tell, are not supported by the citation. The lead is also a mess and pretty much needs a complete rewrite with much of the information moved into the economy section (or dumped all together in regards to the near-endless lines of statistical puffery). Instead of moving pictures around, there needs to be a motion to remove at least half of the 40 images in the main article space. There also needs to be a discussion as to whether to keep that "Other sights" gallery, which certainly makes it sound like a travel guide. Most good/feature article reviewers frown on articles having a gallery like that; this is an encyclopedia, not WikiCommons or Flickr. Best, epicAdam(talk) 01:25, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree with user epicAdam. The lead is ridiculously overstuffed with statistical puffery and inconsequential facts, and does read like a poorly-written travel guide. Most readers will not care that Barcelona is supposedly the 16th most "livable city" in the world according to a lifestyle magazine or that it supposedly is the seventh most important fashion capital in the world. Such dubious information doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Also, it is wearisome to be constantly cleaning up after editors who have trouble writing a coherent sentence in English, and a mystery to me why they are allowed to run rampant throughout the WikiProject Spain, spoiling articles with apparent impunity. Carlstak (talk) 12:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

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Inclusion of dubious ranking of "third best beach in the world" with non-authoritative source[edit]

Certain parties have a habit of stuffing the article with inconsequential and poorly supported "facts". The Discovery Channel is a laughably poor source for the dubious contention that Barcelona has the third best beach in the world. Also, editors should at least make the effort of ensuring that their contributions are intelligible in English. Carlstak (talk) 20:38, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

"third best beach in the world"? and what you want? to have the scientist source to this? Scientists do not make these statistics. National Geographic and Discovery Channel is good source to this, and - both have one sentence - the best urban/city beach in the world. Subtropical-man (talk) 21:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I have reverted your last edit because the sources you give do not support the statement that "Barcelona beach gained the status of best urban beach in the world". The National Geographic source does not say that Barcelona has the best urban beach in the world, it merely lists it among the top 10 beach cities, and there is no link to the Discovery Channel source. Carlstak (talk) 04:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
You are wrong. Title of source is "Top 10 Beach Cities - National Geographic" and first place - Barcelona; 2. Cape Town, South Africa, 3. Honolulu, Hawaii etc.... This table shows clearly. Only you have problems with this, you still have problems, please stop. Please stop trolling's and edit-wars. Subtropical-man (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
You really should give up these comical temper tantrums, they don't become you. You provided no link to the Discovery Channel source. Please stop inserting personal comments in your edit summaries. Carlstak (talk) 02:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Article lede cleanup[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested. Please do not modify it. This application relates to changes that affect a larger number of articles. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the general talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I propose that these inconsequential factoids be deleted from the article lede: "Barcelona is the 14th most "livable city" in the world according to lifestyle magazine Monocle.[11] Similarly, according to Innovation Analysts 2thinknow, Barcelona occupies 13th place in the world on Innovation Cities™ Global Index".

This is unimportant information in an important article about a world-class city and serves only to clutter the lede with trivia. Carlstak (talk) 03:09, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

I strongly concur. AdeMiami (talk) 08:57, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Disagree This is important data. Furthermore, data about "livable city" and "Innovation cities" is standard in Wikipedia in articles about world-class cities. Deleting data from one article - only Barcelona? It is not possible. It would be favoring or 'kneading' one article, such things can not be done. You do not want this information in the articles about cities? OK, make a "general discussion" on this topic (rule for all cities). Subtropical-man (talk) 13:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Done. I shorten the intro (about 1/3), less important data was transferred to a separate sections. Subtropical-man (talk) 16:45, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Obsolete 2008 statistic[edit]

This sentence keeps getting reinstated:

"Also, among world centres of commerce it took second place in economic stability in 2008.[59]"

It is out of date and also (sadly) ironic - now that Spain is in the throes of a severe financial crisis. Why do people keep returning it after I remove it? Bazuz (talk) 22:19, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

It's because User:Subtropical-man (talk) asserts ownership over any bit of data he adds to an article, and wages an edit war against anyone who removes any of his edits, no matter how superfluous or outdated, or how unreliable his source. Look at his talk page. Carlstak (talk) 22:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
So what do you propose to do, then? Bazuz (talk) 23:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
2007–2012 global financial crisis is global i.e. crisis does not exist only in Spain. If you have later data than 2008, please give data and source. Subtropical-man (talk) 16:39, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Are you by any chance aware of the fact that Spain is one of the countries hit hardest by the crisis? Come on, sticking to that 2008 survey is ludicrous. I strongly contend that it has to go anyway - but I'll try to play softball here and look for some more recent data; although I also think that in principle such "rankings" are more or less ephemeral and have no place in wikipedia. Bazuz (talk) 19:41, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I wanted to get to the bottom of this. I looked up the original report [1] and here is what I found out, sit tight - it's not just an index of economic stability, it's an aggregate index of seven different "dimensions" of which stability is one (and weighted only at 10% at that). True, in stability Barcelona ranked 2nd in 2008. But in the aggregate it ranked 38th out of 75. Smack in the middle and actually a drop down from 33rd in 2007.

What gives? That the "2nd place in stability" is a cherry-picked statistic, included here while the larger context in which it had been published is ignored. This is, to be charitable, very poor scholarship. I am going to delete again this statistic - and if you want so badly to refer to that report, please include the whole thing this time. Bazuz (talk) 09:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

This topic is closed although not whole Spain is in the throes of a severe financial crisis. Madrid Community and Catalonia with Barcelona cope well with the crisis :-) Subtropical-man (talk) 16:49, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Hatnote should NOT contain a football club[edit]

Madrid or Munich does not have hatnotes about their (also extremely famous) football clubs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.22.21.3 (talk) 12:56, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem[edit]

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Diannaa (talk) 01:53, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Barcelona[edit]

What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 16:04, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Squares in Barcelona - articles missing[edit]

Hi, loads of squares in Barcelona still calling for their article creation! It's one of the most important cities in Europe and Spain and deserves some more attention in this regard imho. Feel free to start with some squares you like :)


Ahoi, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 06:01, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

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Article related to Barcelona marked as articles for deletion[edit]

Information: Article related to Barcelona marked as articles for deletion here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hotel Barcelona Princess. Subtropical-man talk
(en-2)
18:30, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Climate[edit]

After numerous edits by various users regarding several suggested climates for Barcelona, I had put forth a version that included all the climate types suggested, presenting them in an accurate manner, removing the descriptions which take the truth away from the facts. Some versions had suggested a climate "wetter" than it actually is, some "drier". I took all the claims into consideration, researched every town, near Barcelona and presented a version that included all the climate types suggested by all users. However the edit dispute has still been going on despite the accurate depiction. If phrasing of the version I presented is changed only partially by taking some parts out of it, then the meaning and consistency is lost, and the section becomes misleading. Therefore, before making any further changes to the section, please discuss your reasoning here, so everybody can have their input. Berkserker (talk) 09:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

@Talskubilos: The map you inserted doesn't represent the climate of the Iberian peninsula, it is nowhere near. In fact it is probably the most inaccurate map I have ever seen for any country/region. Most of the alleged Csa region on the map is actually BSk. Berkserker (talk) 09:09, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Also the article is about a city, not the Iberian peninsula, which is made up of multiple countries. Berkserker (talk) 09:10, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, but it clearly shows your "classification" is *wrong*, because Barcelona is (almost) borderline to Cfa but at best is hundreds of km away from BSh. Talskubilos (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
But even this other map puts Barcelona borderline to Cfa (merged with Cfb in the map) and noway nearby to BSh (actually merged with BSk). Talskubilos (talk) 13:14, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, but I think a wider point of view is necessary in order to understand climate zones. Talskubilos (talk) 13:14, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
My classification? Where did you get that idea? It is the Köppen climate classification, not mine. And according to the Köppen climate classification most of Spain is BSk, unlike the incorrect map you provided. The reality is nowhere near that map. BSk zone is all the way up to the mountain range of the Atlantic coast as well as into Catalonia to the east, including the shoreline up to Tarragona. Inland limit is to the north-northwest of Barcelona. Basically Barcelona is sandwiched between the continuous BS zone to the northwest, west and southwest. North and northeast is mostly humid subtropical. No need to be patriotic about climates, just saying. Berkserker (talk) 13:25, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Btw do you know how they form those maps? Maps are the end product. They are the visual translation of the formulas not the other way around. There is always human error when vectorising these maps since people "paint" them by looking at only several weather stations and estimating the rest. Therefore they are mostly incorrect, even the "best" ones. When you have weather station data at hand you can immediately rule out the maps for a given locale. Berkserker (talk) 13:34, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
As for the difference between these two maps, their criteria are different. In your map they have simply taken different thresholds and limits when "painting" the zones. Otherwise there would only be the minimal differences I was talking about in the above post, not a huge one like this. Berkserker (talk) 13:37, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
May I ask you where are your sources? In the Iberian Peninsula, BSk is located in the Ebro valley around Saragossa as well as other inland areas (mostly to the SE), possibly including Madrid itself as a bordeline city, while BSh is limited to the coastal stretch between Alicante and Cabo de Gata, with some patches of BSk and BW between, the latter being found around Almeria. Talskubilos (talk) 13:45, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
In addition, those NW and N areas (including Northern Portugal and part of Galicia) you quoted as being BS, are actually Csb. Talskubilos (talk) 13:48, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
It wasn't about Northwestern Spain. It is N, W and NW of Barcelona, not even Catalonia in general. NW Catalonia has an oceanic climate. Berkserker (talk) 13:53, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
That's right if you label Cfa/Cfb as "oceanic", but the borderline between BS and Csa is far away from Barcelona, being located near or around Tarragona. Talskubilos (talk) 14:06, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, Barcelona is right outside the BS zone, therefore it is not classified as one. However it is close to the precipitation threshold by 50mm, thus its precipitation regime has characteristics of the BS climate, such as slightly decreased winter precipitation and a peak in late spring. Berkserker (talk) 14:59, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
I disagree. The rainfall peak is in April-May, which isn't exactly "late spring", and also my city isn't "right outside" but a good way off the semi-arid zone. This map explains for example why Barcelona and the central Catalan cost have summer thunderstorms like the Eastern Pyrenees as well as mild winters. Talskubilos (talk) 15:14, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
BS climates peak around April-May, sometimes as late as early June. Barcelona has this pattern. A typical Med. climate would peak during winter and gradually decrease. As for the distance, 50 km is fairly close, in fact two points 50 km apart can be in the same metropolitan area in US standards. Also my advice is you should get out of this "my city" psyche, otherwise you can never look at it objectively. The map didn't show up btw. Berkserker (talk) 15:27, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
Sure, like other W Mediterranean cities, Barcelona doesn't show the winter rainfall peak, probably due to the foehn efect to the rainy southerwesternlies from the Atlantic created by the Iberian System, which also strongly contributes to the BSk climate of the Ebro valley (the other main factor being northernwesterlies). As an anecdotal fact, in 2013 and 2014 October we got August temperatures while in the western and central Peninsula they got a rainy autumn weather. But still a 50-100 km distance isn't very close by Catalan -not U.S.- standards. As for the map, try this link Talskubilos (talk) 16:20, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────If you can find some official governmental data by the Catalan government on local weather stations, that would be very beneficial. Since I don't speak any Catalan, it is very difficult for me to find it myself. If you can help find these official sources, we would be able to get rid of the low quality secondary sources. Meanwhile take a look at this. [2] Berkserker (talk) 16:28, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

I also agree that Barcelona is way too green to be BS influenced, however the system has its flaws. As a Wikipedia editor I am only trying to maintain the consistency between pages. If we transparently display all the facts, then in the long run these flaws will be very apparent, and may coax the climatology community to address these flaws and come up with a revision. Med. countries are perfect to demonstrate these flaws in the system. However if everyone tries to "save" their own city from the chopping block, then these flaws become hidden. I personally believe that Barcelona displays some microclimatic conditions due to the surrounding hills, which trap the humid air between them and the sea. This is why having multiple local weather stations would be beneficial to pinpoint differences between different neighbourhoods. We may even come up with finds that prove some neighbourhoods have a borderline Cfa climate. Berkserker (talk) 16:38, 19 June 2016 (UTC)
The Catalonia Meteorological Service (Servei Meteorològic de Catalunya) has data series from 1950 onwards here. Red stations on the map have temperature (monthly high/low) and rainfall and blue dots only rainfall. Please notice Barcelona's data is from Fabra Observatory, located at 415 m above sea level, whose temperature is several degrees lower than in the city itself. On the other hand, summers are hot rather than warm, as stated in your original version and the Climate of Barcelona article. Talskubilos (talk) 04:11, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
As you know, I didn't write that original version from scratch, I combined different versions from different users. That sentence was already present. A better term would be to use very warm as daily means range 23-26 during the summer. As for the stations, thank you, I will look at it in detail when I have more time. After that we can come to a consensus. Berkserker (talk) 05:32, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm sure longer data series such as the one provided by Meteocat from Fabra Observatory (1950-2015) would help classify Barcelona's climate as well as identify climate oscillations, especially in rainfall. For example, some years have a winter peak, most often in Jan and less frequently in Feb. In my opinion, this would probably be associated with a SW translation of the Genoa low following a cold air advection. Talskubilos (talk) 20:10, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I propose the following version. This way we will clearly state Barcelona is too green to be BS, but have precipitation regimes influenced both by Cfa and BS, thus explaining the dry winters and slightly wetter summers. Probably this is exactly why it is green after all. "Barcelona lies on a transitional climatic zone, with characteristics of multiple climates. The city has mild, relatively wet winters and very warm, relatively dry summers. According to the Köppen climate classification, the city has a hot-summer Mediterranean climate (Csa), while its precipitation regime is partially influenced by the hot semi-arid climate (BSh) and the humid subtropical climate (Cfa), which explains the relatively dry winters and more than usual summer precipitation for the summer months, which isn't typical of a Mediterranean climate. Barcelona lies outside the semi-arid zone, and is not classified as one, unlike cities and regions situated west and southwest of Barcelona, the coastal city of Tarragona being borderline. Cities and towns with higher elevation, just north of Barcelona such as Sabadell, which is 20 km (12 mi) to the north, with an elevation of 191 m (627 ft), receives just enough summer precipitation over 30 mm (1.2 in), to be classified as humid subtropical (Cfa)." Berkserker (talk) 02:41, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

My own concern is about the current data series being too short for an accurate climate classification, so I'd propose to replace it with Fabra Observatory data from 1950 onwards. On the other hand, your text is inconsistent, as it says winters are "relatively wet" and next "relative dry", and it doesn't improve the current one, which after all I modelled after yours :-) Clearly, Barcelona is geographically closer to Cfa than to BS (Sabadell is way near than Tarragona), although rainfall oscillations make wet years look as Cfa and dry ones as BS. Talskubilos (talk) 05:52, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Also mean temperatures from Can Bruixa are almost 2ºC higher than Fabra's ones due to the urban heat island. This has a dramatic impact upon aridity index and climate classification, and so Barcelona looks less green than it actually is. Talskubilos (talk) 06:20, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
The first "relatively wet" is a comparison of summer and winter precipitation, while the second "relatively dry" is a comparison of Barcelona with different Med. cities. We can add a few words to the second sentence to make it more clear. When I have time I will look at the stations mentioned. We can add multiple stations like some other cities that show variance between stations, such as Rome or LA. Berkserker (talk) 10:45, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
I changed the wording but I think the version I proposed here is better, since now the typical Med. statement is repeated twice, doesn't look nice language-wise. Berkserker (talk) 10:57, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Meanwhile go ahead and add two more weather boxes showing the two ends of the spectrum. Berkserker (talk) 10:58, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Take a look at the maps here. BSh accounts for Sep-Oct (Aug-Sep in BSh) peak and Cfa for Apr-May (May-Jun in Cfa) one.
I've just corrected these inconsistences and added accuracy to the distance between Barcelona and the semi-arid zone (50-100 km to the W and SW). How about changing the current climate data for the longer and more accurate series from Fabra Observatory? Talskubilos (talk) 15:23, 21 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.28.227.168 (talk)
I am very busy lately, so replying a little late. The wording became poor after I had to add the change you requested, otherwise the initial wording presented here was accurate. Some of the changes you have made have made the paragraph better, however the initial sentence can't be as "relatively dry winters and hot, relatively wet summers" since in med. climates winter is the wet season, and summer is the dry season, which in the case of Barcelona still holds true. We need to define the Med. climate in the first sentence. The only difference is Barcelona is relatively drier during winter compared to other med. cities, not to its own summer period. So we need to put the original relatively dry summers and relatively wet winters. If it was a typical med. climate you would just go ahead and say wet winters and dry summers.
Also using an exact 50-100 km definition is something we should refrain from, as it defines the region too specifically. The distance to which the BS zone starts may differ by the bearing you take from Barcelona, therefore in science it is better to avoid exact figures unless there is solid data. Also 100 km is a bit far from where the actual BS zone starts, it is about 50 km both due southwest as well as west and northwest.
Really? BSk can be found in the Ebro Valley, including the area around Lleida, as well as the coast way SW from Tarragona. This means the semi-arid zone is actually farer than 100 km from Barcelona. But I agree Köppen's Csa isn't a good description for the climate of the coastal zones intermediate between semi-arid (BSk) and oceanic (Cfa). Talskubilos (talk) 13:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
As for the BSk rainfall peak, it can vary across the world, however most have a late spring and autumn peak. When I used the term peak, I meant in comparison to the winter season, as for some BSk regions fall peak can be higher than spring vice versa. Berkserker (talk) 09:27, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I've rewritten the first paragraph to state that since Köppen's Csa doesn't accurately describe the climate of the city, it's better understood as a transitional zone between BS and Cfa. Talskubilos (talk) 14:13, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Köppen classification rules state a climate should meet two conditions to be classified as Mediterranean: 1) Rainfall in summer driest month (Psdry) should be less than 30-40 mm and 2) Rainfall in the wettest winter month (Pwwet) should be more than 3 times Psdry. As in NW Mediterranean (e.g.Marseille) climate the rainiest season is autumn instead of winter, we should "bend" Köppen rules and take the autumn wettest month as reference. This Csa subtype, labelled as "Portuguese" (although a more appropriate name would be "Provençal" o "Ligurian") by the French geographer George Viers after Emmanuel de Martonne own classification -competing to Köppen's at the beginning of the 20th century-, is found north of the Pyrennes (e.g. Perpinyà/Perpignan) but in Catalonia (e.g. Figueres and Barcelona) it becames altered with a secondary winter rainfall minimum.

As a matter of fact, this revised Köppen classification of Spain climates places Teruel and its surrounding area within a temperate highline climate (Cwb/Cwa) where winter is drier than summer -just the opposite of a Mediterranean climate-. As in the former case, this classification actually involves some "tuning" of the original Köppen, which requires the summer wettest montth to receive more than 10 times the rainfall of the driest winter month. Within this zone, Morella would be a roughly continental counterpart of Girona, with similar temperature and rainfall patterns, although means are 3ºC lesser in Morella. However, in the same map other Catalonia inland stations (e.g. Vic) with relative dry winters are misclassified as Cfa/Cfb when they're actually Cwa/Cwb, or at least bordeline if the driest winter month receives less that 30-40 mm. This would imply the Csa climate of Figueres and Barcelona is actually influenced by Cwa rather than Cfa. However, in the case of Tarragona, semi-arid (BS) influence is prevalent. Talskubilos (talk) 15:37, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

A map that I made of Köppen types of Spain is currently on this article. First off, I've never seen any city have such a passionate debate over its climate type.
Just wanted to mention that I recognize that my map does have some flaws. It's only as accurate as the dataset I was able to find for it. I can't spot change any sections on the map without making it look horrible. However, if any Spanish speakers here can find climate raster files - in ASC or BIL format - through official Spanish sources - I could likely make a much better map using a wider range of weather stations throughout the country.
In any case, I feel it's a great improvement over the previous Köppen map for Spain, which listed Bilbao as tundra. Redtitan (talk) 18:51, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Redtitan, your text in the article: "but still more than one third of the rainfall of the wettest month in the winter half-year (November–April), thus preventing it from being qualified as a Mediterranean climate (Csa)" is typical original research (see Wikipedia:No original research). This is your calculations and conclusions on the basis of source - it is prohibited. Also, article is about city, there is no place for climatic maps of the entire state. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 23:27, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

@Subtropical-man: The text you list wasn't mine. You'll want to talk to Talskubilos about that, as they wrote that. I do disagree with you about it being original research, as technically every Köppen type on every city article involves calculations. If your point is true, thousands of climate sections for cities all around the world are guilty of original research. But I really don't want to spend my time arguing that point. Redtitan (talk) 23:35, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@Redtitan: - no, nobody was doing calculations. Maps by Koppen have been used directly, for example - if map by Koppen show Malaga within Mediterranean climate, in article used "Mediterranean climate", without any calculations. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 23:41, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
@Subtropical-man: I'm afraid I don't understand what you just said. It was hard to follow. Could you try to restate that? Redtitan (talk) 23:48, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
The only point that I wish to make is that for every city, Köppen climate types are calculated from climate data presented in weatherboxes. The thresholds from the Köppen article are applied to a particular town or city's climate data. That's how it's been for thousands of articles for cities around the world. I've never seen anyone call doing that original research, and I've edited climate types for hundreds of different cities in North America. The simple application of climate thresholds to climate normals should fall under the 'Routine Calculations' exemption of Wikipedia's no original research policy. That's all I'll say about this. I'll leave it to you and Talskubilos to discuss this further. Redtitan (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
You wrote: " I wish to make is that for every city, Köppen climate types are calculated from climate data presented in weatherboxes" - should be a wider discussion on this topic and clear consensus for this idea (between many users and with administrator(s)). It is not so easy to call these analyzes (routine calculations or typical original research). Besides, Koppen is only one of many climate classifications, is not an oracle. Subtropical-man (talk / en-2) 01:08, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
The hard irony to this is that you removed Köppen's map from the article, which was explicitly included as an aid to readers unacquainted with climate classfications. In fact, older maps often include large portions of central and eastern Spain into the Csa zone, while actual data would make them semi-arid (BSk), or in the case of Barcelona and Tarragona, humid subtropical (Cfa) like Girona. Talskubilos (talk) 13:53, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Climate data misleading[edit]

Having only climate for city hall is misleading (urban island distortion). Should have readings for for airport or other areas more typical, otherwise it would seem as if Barcelona has one of the warmest winters of Spain which is evidently not the case due to its northern latitude.Asilah1981 (talk) 03:59, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I just realized the source has been misquoted. Please someone correct the climatic data.Asilah1981 (talk) 04:31, 7 February 2017 (UTC)