Talk:Battle of France

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Former good article nominee Battle of France was a Warfare good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
August 27, 2013 Good article nominee Not listed
March 16, 2016 Good article nominee Not listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Reluctance of Reynaud to surrender[edit]

I found a citation for that; it's a newspaper clipping: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19660921&id=AtoLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QlcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5224,3352623 I am horrible at editing wiki pages, so please add.

Infobox errors[edit]

I saw that someone had sorted out the inaccurate Infobox entries but then realised that the Result criterion is still wrong. Must we put up with this amateurish standard? Keith-264 (talk) 15:04, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Maginot Line redux[edit]

I have pulled the below conversation out of the archive, as it still seems relevant.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 01:54, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Archived material[edit]

I recently made the same observation on the Dunkirk evacuation article; the French understood that the Maginot Line would be outflanked, the whole point of it was to force and funnel a German attack to the north into Belgium. Currently, the lede states the line was outflanked, but provides little context to that statement. The rest of the article does not really explain it either, other than stating that Gamelin recognised the Germans could not breakthrough there (something he had considered several years earlier).

As on the above article's talkpage, for the consideration of editors involved (as well as additional sources provided during the discussion), a sourced para wrote up for another article to provide background; something that could possibly be pulled apart and partially inserted, where needed.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 01:44, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

"During the 1930s, the French had constructed a series of fortifications—the Maginot Line—along their border with Germany. This line had been designed to deter a German invasion across the Franco-German border and funnel an attack into Belgium, which could then be met by the best divisions of the French Army. Thus, any future war would take place outside of French territory avoiding a repeat of the First World War.[1][2] The main section of the Maginot Line ran from the Swiss border and ended at Longwy. The area immediately to the north, was covered by the heavily wooded Ardennes region.[3] General Philippe Pétain declared the Ardennes to be "impenetrable" as long as "special provisions" were taken. If so, he believed that any enemy force emerging from the forest would be vulnerable to a pincer attack and destroyed. The French commander-in-chief, Maurice Gamelin, likewise believed the area to be of a limited threat, noting that it "never favoured large operations". French war games held in 1938, with the scenario of a German armoured attack through the Ardennes, left the military with the impression that the region was still largely impenetrable and that this, along with the obstacle of the Meuse River, would allow the French time to bring up troops into the area and thus counter such an attack.[4] With this in mind, the area was left lightly defended.[1] The German strategy, which became known as the Manstein Plan, was to concentrate large armoured forces in the Ardennes, who would then push towards the English Channel encircling the Allied armies in Belgium, cutting them off from supplies and reinforcements from France.[5]

(above edited slightly) Not bad but I'd add something about it being a response to the demographic consequences of the Great War too, that economising on the defence on the common border was necessary to make it possible to concentrate a large part of the modern French forces in the north.Keith-264 (talk) 09:33, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
I think that is an excellent point. The above, prior to your edit, was wrote up only as a brief summary so was not aiming to go into mega detail, but this is the article where that kind of info should be. Outside of the Maginot Line, should the article discuss the fractured political state the French nation found itself in, of the low morale among the military (having sat around for the Phoney War) or of the civilians? I have to say Jackson's book is an eye opener on what France was like at the time.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 12:57, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
@KevinNinja: Pinging Kevin, as the one of the main contributors to the article and the one taking it through GA at the moment; your inout is very much welcomed. Thus far, kept this more as a sidebar than adding the GA review so not to derail somewhat although this discussion does touch on the broad coverage part of the GA spectrum and can only serve to further the article by providing some background context.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 18:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ a b Jackson 2003, p. 33.
  2. ^ Roth 2010, p. 6.
  3. ^ Kaufmann & Kaufmann 2007, p. 23.
  4. ^ Jackson 2003, p. 32.
  5. ^ Roth 2010, p. 7.

Template:Infobox military conflict[edit]

result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much.

  • May I suggest that the page watchers read the new version of the result criteria; note that Decisive is as gone as Secretary Green. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 09:07, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Result[edit]

result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much.

  • Decisive is as gone as Secretary Green. Keith-264 (talk) 22:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
Oh and the otiose bullet points must go too. Keith-264 (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2017 (UTC)