Talk:Battle of Ponta Delgada
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Article is incorrect
The Battle of Ponta Delgada was not part of the Eighty Years' War, but part of the 1580 Portuguese succession crisis even if it coincided with that war. I'm correcting it. The Ogre (talk) 10:36, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Albrecht has reversed my edit regarding the identity of the contenders in this battle. Presently it is stated that the belligerents were, on one side, Portugal, the United Provinces, Huguenot French and England, and, on the other side, Spain. This is completely wrong! It is not only a factual error (as I shall explain), but it also amonts to taking a POV position on the Portuguese dynastic struggles of the 16th century. If you look at the Spanish version of this article, you will see that the contenders are described as having been Spain against French Privateers (Corsarios Franceses) and in the Portuguese version it is stated that it was between Portuguese and Spanish, on one side, and Portuguese and French, on the other side. The French article just says that this was battle between France and Portugal/Spain! The fleet that in the present version of the article is called Spanish was constituted by a total of 28 ships, of which 8 were Portuguese and 10 Flemish (the rest being Spanish). The opposing fleet was constituted by 60 French ships, commanded by French Admirals and hoisting the French white flag with the Fleur-de-lis. You see, this was a battle between a private fleet (essencially French, but not officialy representing France) paid by António, Prior of Crato, the exiled pretender to the Portuguese crown, and a joint Spanish and Portuguese fleet officialy representing the King of Portugal, Philipe I, who also happened to be King of Spain, as Philipe II, in a personal union of the crowns. You see, during the Iberian Union Portugal never lost its independence! It not only maintained its authonomy, it also maintained its own administration, in Europe and in the Empire. Philipe was widely acknowledged as King of Portugal in Portugal, and, by this time, not only the Portuguese political institutions and elites supported Philipe, but also there was pratically no support for António of Crato, except in the Azores. And this was indeed a private fleet paid by António with the crown jewels he took from Portugal before fleing. For these reasons I am changing the belligerents into Portugal and Spain (on one side) and a Portuguese renegades and French Privateers (on the other side). I hope my reasons are well understood. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 03:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I have read both Portuguese and Spanish accounts of the naval battle of São Miguel and do not remember seeing anything about English soldiers fighting on the side of the French and Portuguese under D. Antonio. Further, no accounts mention any Portuguese fighting with the Spanish at São Miguel. If any did, they must have amounted to a very small number. I think the confusion arises from the fact that the article mentions three different Azorean battles; Salga at Terceira 1581; S. Miguel 1582; and Terceira again in 1583. It was at the conquest of Terceira in 1583 that both English and French helped the Portuguese defend the island against the Spanish invasion, in which some Portuguese and even Germans also participated. So Portuguese fought against Portuguese. I believe this article would be helped by dividing these battles into three separate sections, or by putting each in a different page. Bartam (talk) 02:29, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
- I believe not. On the Iberian side one finds Portuguese, Spanish and Flemish ships, on the side of António, Prior of Crato, I think there were only French ships. The Ogre (talk) 15:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
Battle of Terceira
I made a redirect from the Battle of Terceira-article. Below the old text. Please let the experts see if that text could be useful for the current article:
|Battle of Terceira|
The Battle of Terceira took place near the island of Terceira, in the Azores, on July 27, 1583. It was the last major battle of the War of the Portuguese Succession which began in 1580 with the death of the Cardinal-King Henry of Portugal and saw the two claimants, Philip II of Spain and António, Prior of Crato, fight for control of Portugal. The Island of Terceira where the battle was fought was one of the last strongholds of the Portuguese claimant, António, Prior of Crato. Philip II of Spain won both the war and the battle decisively.
The causes of the battle are best understood in the context of several other major conflicts during the time period, most notably the centuries old rivalry between the Austrian-Spanish House of Habsburg and the French House of Valois, the more recent Dutch War of Independence (Commonly referred to as the Eighty Years War (1568 - 1648) and the open enmity between the Spanish branch of the Habsburgs and the English Tudors that would later turn to open conflict during the invasion of the Spanish Armada in 1588.
San Martin (São Martinho) and San Mateo (São Mateus) were Portuguese galleons as others, not Spanish. They were request to Spanish service as many others - in this battle and others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:11, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
- The portuguese galleons were all taken by the fleet of Alvaro de Bazán when the spanish fleet seized Lisbon.
Colin Martin and Geoffrey Parker wrote:
The 12 Portuguese galleons, powerfully built and powerfully gunned, captured (save one that sank) by Santa Cruz at the fall of Lisbon, changed all this. see The Spanish Armada. p.72, Published in 1989 by Penguin Books. ISBN 1901341143 Pietje96 (talk) 20:47, 13 August 2011 (UTC)