Talk:Bekonscot

Untitled

I believe that Bekonscot is run by the Church Army. Seeking confirmation before I put in the article. Phil 16:08, Dec 19, 2003 (UTC)

Most of the article information was submitted by Grant James Gibson, a current employee of Bekonscot Ltd.

Oldest Model Village in the World?

According to another article in Wikipedia, Tiny Town in Colorado was founded in 1921. In a linked article Timmy Dunn says that Bekonscot was founded sometimes around the mid 1920. So which is really the oldest model village?
--Peter Walt A. (talk) 01:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I've just found a couple of references to back up Bekonscots' claim, one of which is from the BBC, so fairly reliable. _TalkIslander 01:18, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Bekonscot was built in various forms circa 1920 but only opened to the public in 1929. There were earlier model villages and indeed Tiny Town is a miniature town of a different kind. If clarification is needed then I can update the Bekonscot website to affirm these statements. Timmydunn (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Inspiration for Legoland Windsor

I find that a mighty peculiar assertion! Legoland Windsor is very obviously almost entirely taken from Legoland Billund, which has been around for years. It may be that orignal legoland was inspired by Bekonscot, but in the absence of any reference it's impossible to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki benguin (talk • contribs) 09:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

You will find the assertion in my book - Bekonscot Model Village - published by Jarrold 2004. This was a fact given to me by the model making team at Legoland Windsor who built Legoland and worked with my colleagues at Bekonscot to conceive Miniland in its UK form. Of course, Miniland UK was based mostly on the Billund concept but much development was done following analysis of Bekonscot and its features. I will update the article appropriately as it was not clear by the original writer. Timmydunn (talk) 21:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

OK... as it's your book, that'd be original research, unless you can provide a separate source to confirm this fact. Unfortunatly, another separate source really is needed here. _TalkIslander 22:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

But that is ridiculous... There is only one published original work on model villages and miniature towns - and that is the only source. Dozens of other (offline) media have also used the quote from the book and interviews with me since - but that's to say that my quote was unreliable. So how far does one go back to prove a fact? Do I need to have another person make a published statement to the same end? I have no reason to make such a statement other than for completeness of fact and to complete the context in which this model village exists. I'm not sure how I can verify a single point of original research done through a historic interview, which has been verified by other sources before publication. (talk) 17:20, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

With regard to the quoted fact, it would be a simple matter for someone other than yourself to find your book and add the reference -- that wouldn't be Original Research! (If someone went to Windsor and asked at Legoland, that would be OR!)

Actually you should be more concerned about conflict of interest here, and hence probably should not be editing this article at all. However, if you have control of the Bekonscot website, there's nothing to stop you from expanding the history section there and letting other users reference it here (and I don't think there's a problem about you mentioning on the talk page that such facts are available, either... :-) )

EdJogg (talk) 18:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Legoland UK had formerly viewed and approved the aforementioned text which is published in the book. Therefore it has been verified by Legoland UK, now part of the Merlin Entertainment Group. (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC).

Do you have a reference or anything? _TalkIslander 16:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes - the book as published by Jarrold. _Talktimmydunn 11:03, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Have removed section about the "Miners Lane" extension to the model railway, which was an edit made some time ago - have edited it to reflect the changing nature of the model railway!

Timmydunn (talk) 10:06, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Bekonscot/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 00:21, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Copyvio check

• I'll review the top matches found using Earwig's Copyvio Detector. A 27% match is a backwards copy. Matches of 3.8% to 6.5% from The Guardian, the Buckinghamshire Advertiser and joylandbooks.com all OK as they are quotes and WP:LIMITED phrases.
• No close paraphrasing issues found while reviewing some of the sources.

Images

• Images, including the map, are all CC. Relevant, positioning and captions are fine. Good ALT text that descibes the content of the images.

Creation

• Spot check on an ideal English village with a church, railway and high street, illuminated by electric lights - reading this, I wondered whether it was "idealised" (and indeed The Times has that word, and it appears later in the artile under "In popular culture"), but the Bucks Examiner uses "ideal". I think this is a case of WP:LIMITED where retaining "ideal" would be better than substituting a synonym.
• Spot check on The railway was 1,000 feet long and had stations including a London terminus called Maryloo (referencing real stations Marylebone and Waterloo) - the National Geographic source has "1,200 feet".

• true and bucks examiner also says 1,200 so changed Mujinga (talk) 10:29, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• Railway length is variously mentioned as "1,000 feet long", "10 scale miles (400 metres)" and "400 metres of tracks". (I'm not sure whether the track length has changed since construction.) Consider being more consistent, and using Template:Convert or something similar.

• clarified and I'll look into Template:Convert now Mujinga (talk) 10:29, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• done Mujinga (talk) 10:34, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

History

• commonly known as the oldest surviving model village in the UK - is known the right word here? Isn't it something more like "referred to"?

• yes that reads better, changed Mujinga (talk) 12:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• [6][13][8][14] - optionally, you could use WP:CITEBUNDLE

• tried and failed to do that Mujinga (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• Not an issue for GA. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

In popular culture

• unlike many "In popular culture" sections in articles, seems to meet MOS:POPCULT.
• had become part of English culture - presumably from "That vision has seeped into the wider culture, and not always in the ways that you might expect" in the source; but feels a bit stong to me.

• Yes you are right - I've added one of the academic sources there to beef it up. Padan page 37 says stuff like: "The Bekonscot Model Village, which represents ‘forever England’, supplies concrete images to such national sentiments. Bekonscot is a collection of miniature models, some of them replicas of existing buildings and others typical English buildings such as pubs, railway stations, churches and manor houses. The sites are detached from their original geographic context, and the system of their classification or spatial arrangement creates a new symbolic geography, complete with its own nature and countryside, representing an ideal nostalgic England." Mujinga (talk) 12:36, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• The village frequently appears on lists of recommended family days out - is this based on three sources, or from content in those sources? "frequently" might be a bit strong.

• good question - the first two cites are examples of that I suppose, then the Bucks Free Press says stuff like: "An ATTRACTION in Beaconsfield has been named as one of the best valued in the UK, following a recent survey. Conducted by Money.co.uk, it showed that the Bekonscot Model Village came sixth out of 15 destinations that users ranked highly in terms of the quality of the venue’s reviews, along with its cost of admission" and "The unique landmark in Beaconsfield has also made national attention as shows such as Blue Peter, Countryfile and the One Show have all featured the model village, whilst Bekonscot has also made appearances on programmes such as Midsomer Murders and A League of Their Own." Should I rephrase? Mujinga (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• I think with that clarification, the current wording is OK. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• The Sunday Telegraph reported a rumour that Toyland where her fictional character Noddy lives was inspired by Bekonscot - not sure "rumour" is quite right here. The source's phrase "is said to have been" isn't the easiest to make use of.

• rephrased to simply say that the ST reported Mujinga (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

See also / External links / Further reading

• Optionally, as this isn't a GA requirement, add some brief decriptions to the "See also" entries, in the spirit of "Editors should provide a brief annotation when a link's relevance is not immediately apparent" from MOS:SEEALSO.

• makes sense, done Mujinga (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Sources

• Swanborough, Nicola (7 September 2002) - could add the page (16)

• I'd rather not simply because I feel I'd then have to add page numbers for other newspapers as well. Mujinga (talk) 12:53, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• From what I can see about citynoise.org, we should't be linking to copyrighted material (National Geographic) hosted there (WP:COPYVIOEL). But let me know if there is a reason this should be allowed.

• i agree it's debatable, citynoise.org is currently down for me (maybe it always was) so I can't check what it says. the archive link i think can be justified per WP:COPYLINKS - "The copyright status of Internet archives in the United States is unclear, however. It is currently acceptable to link to Internet archives such as the Wayback Machine, which host unmodified archived copies of webpages taken at various points in time" although having said that, i guess it is trumped by "All copyrightable works published in the United States before 1928 are in the public domain" per Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Works_created_before_1978 Mujinga (talk) 10:29, 28 June 2023 (UTC) should i just remove the link then? that's how I'm leaning Mujinga (talk) 12:42, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• I'd be happier if the link was removed. Looking at a snapshot from 2016, the site is "a public photoblog where people with a love for the urban form, modern world, or a general appreciation of their environment gather to post stories, narratives and often upload photos of their favourite cities, hometowns, travels, or current locations." Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

  yes having seen that link I agree that it's likely copyvio so I'll remove it. good to know the cutoff date is 1928. Mujinga (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• a part of English culture - as per comment above.

• hopefully resolved, but happy to add more in the body - I'm trying to get across the point that Bekonscot is embedded in English culture as an idealised/ideal version of English society Mujinga (talk) 12:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• commonly known as the oldest surviving model village in the UK - as per comment above.

• changed to referred Mujinga (talk) 12:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

• Consider adding a bit more about creation or history; it being "the oldest participant in the International Association of Miniature Parks (IMAP)" is, I think, less interesting and improtant than other aspects.

• yeah true - it's just slightly hard with the sources here because Bekonscot is not the oldest model village but is referred to as such. I removed the IMAP bit and added that it has had over 14 million visitors and inspired different authors - hopefully that's an improvement Mujinga (talk) 12:52, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

General

• A nice little article about a nice little village. I only have minor suggestions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:11, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Great thanks for the helpful comments, I was away for a long weekend and hope to have time over the next days to bring the article up to scratch! Mujinga (talk) 19:32, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose I hope I've answered everything, a few points prob need more discussion. Cheers! Mujinga (talk) 13:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Actually, with the replies above, I'm satisfied that the article meets the GA criteria, so I'm passing it. Thanks for your work. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.