Talk:Benjamin Netanyahu

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High traffic

On 22 July 2014, Benjamin Netanyahu was linked from Time, a high-traffic website. (See visitor traffic)

External links modified[edit]

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Netanyahu notices Jihad coming to Europe[edit]

Headline: On Yom HaShoah, Netanyahu Compares Iran to Nazi Germany

“Just as the Nazis aspired to crush civilization and to establish a ‘master race’ to replace it in controlling the world while annihilating the Jewish people, so too does Iran strive to gain control over the [Middle East] region, from which it would spread further, with the explicit intent of obliterating the Jewish state,” Netanyahu said.
AstroU (talk) 01:36, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Holocaust Denial[edit]

How are we going to deal with this?[1] Normally we'd label him a holocaust denier and link him to antisemitism. Any thoughts?109.154.105.52 (talk) 12:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

--How is he being "anti-semitic" or an holocaust denier? Many jews support him and he has been a strong leader of Israel. About the holocaust denial part, it's not actually denial at most I'd label him as a revisionist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.55.182 (talk) 12:33, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I thought Holocaust Revisionism WAS Holocaust Denial. Perhaps you could explain when revisionism is denial and when it isn't?109.154.105.52 (talk) 12:36, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Holocaust Revisionism is a difference in the official narrative, Holocaust denial is the complete rejection of the systematic extermination of Jews or existence of gas chambers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.55.182 (talk) 12:42, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Is Holocaust revisionism not anti semitic then?109.154.105.52 (talk) 15:33, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Try asking Wikipedia about holocaust revisionism. It redirects you to a locked article about Holocaust denial. Netanyahu is a holocaust denier.109.154.105.52 (talk) 15:43, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Got to agree look for yourself, he's a Holocaust Revisionist or Holocaust Denier, if you follow that equivocation, check for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNpnfflmjuc Not all, virtually no, Holocaust Revisionist dismisses the Holocaust narrative completely. --41.151.47.4 (talk) 00:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - I just want to add my dismay to what Bibi claimed. I have had many discussions with members from the Institute for Historical Review, and this is a line they frequently use. Along with the Zyklon B and 'oven temperature' smoke screens, trying to absolve Hitler by stating he "only wanted to relocate the Jews" but nobody else would take them, is a static argument the history revisionists/Holocaust denialists use. This is more than just disappointing. Dave Dial (talk) 15:46, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
But that's what ALL the documents say. I'm sure Bibi has read them. --41.145.152.218 (talk) 00:39, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Is he denying the Holocaust happened? No. Is he saying the Final Solution policy didn't exist? No. Are mainstream sources calling him a Holocaust denier? If so, please provide sources. --NeilN talk to me 00:44, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Here's Moshe Zimmerman calling him a holocaust denier. This would be clear-cut if it was anybody other than the Prime Minister of Israel, so I'm taking the initiative and adding both Zimmerman's comments and the category. Sceptre (talk) 09:53, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Further to this comment: Netanyahu's comments fall under the IHRA's definition of holocaust denial; specifically, point 5 (blaming racial or ethnic groups for the Holocaust). Sceptre (talk) 10:14, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment2 - That may well be true(and I think it rates a 'mostly true), but it doesn't mean we can label Bibi a "Holocaust Denier", any more than we can label the Palestinian Authority a "Nazi group" based on that one source. Let's not start edit wars to make a point. Dave Dial (talk) 14:12, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I think Dave Dial and NeilN have said it all, not much to add. Like Dave, I found the comments shocking and disappointing, but as both Dave and Neil have said, we most certainly cannot jump to label him a Holocaust denier. If reliable sources use it, we can discuss the matter. In the meantime, I don't think there's much to discuss. Jeppiz (talk) 14:30, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

We have one of Israel's most prominent Holocaust historians saying that this is Holocaust denial. I think that's a strong reason to support the category. Sceptre (talk) 14:52, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
However, Zimmerman did not explicitly call Netanyahu a Holocaust denier. --NeilN talk to me 14:55, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Sceptre, I'd agree it's a strong argument to include it in the article, but not to add the category. Jeppiz (talk) 14:58, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
As per Jeppiz and those he cites. The category should not be added to the page.Nishidani (talk) 15:18, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
But Zimmermann did say that his statements were a form of Holocaust denial and that made Netanyahu a Holocaust denier. Even so, it's hair-splitting of the most ridiculous degree that goes beyond BLP; would we really need a separate source to say that Cristiano Ronaldo is a footballer if we only had one source saying that he played professional football? Sceptre (talk) 17:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
"Any attempt to deflect the burden from Hitler to others is a form of Holocaust denial." Zimmerman is entitled to his view. It is fringe of course, so at the most it is a WP:Due issue. It is obvious that Netanyahu had no intention of denying the Holocaust: his whole life is obsessed with it, he reads everything in terms of the Holocaust. The definition of Holocaust denial is that it is 'the act of denying the genocide of Jews in the Holocaust during World War II.[1]' It is disputed by no one that Netanyahu shares the view of all sane people in the world at least on the fact that the Holocaust took place. Zimmerman's statement is saying that you deny the Holocaust if you don't blame Hitler for it, an extremely confused position. You probably need more than one single opinion on such an extreme spin to make it relevant to the article. What others have said is that Netanyahu used an argument that forms part of the armoury of Holocaust denialism, the one asserting that Hitler wasn't responsible, as the (dis) likes of David Irving have argued. It is an elementary principle of logic that denial of knowledge of an event does not mean the event itself is denied.Nishidani (talk) 17:52, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Are you seriously describing the views of Israel's most eminent Holocaust historian as fringe? Zimmermann said, and I quote, "With this, Netanyahu joins a long line of people that we would call Holocaust deniers.". That's pretty clear cut. And, yes, saying that anybody other than the Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust is Holocaust denial, as is saying that Hitler only planned to "deport" the Jewish population, under the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of Holocaust denial. Sceptre (talk) 18:03, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Yehuda Bauer is usually recognized as the (world's) most eminent Holocaust scholar, a position he assumed after the death of the late lamented Raul Hilberg. You should learn to construe words precisely, giving due weight to all words used:'"Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time,' he wanted to expel the Jews." He said, with that profound ignorance, widely noted, of history that is the hallmark of his public utterances and books, that Hitler did not want the Holocaust originally, but Husseini persuaded him to carry it out. Rather than denying Hitler's responsibility, he asserts it, but (and this is the obscenity that outrages everyone) says Hitler more or less oversaw the Holocaust after a Palestinian mufti had persuaded him to go through with it.
i.e.'Netanyahu didn't say 'anybody other than the Nazis were (sic) responsible for the Holocaust'.That the Nazis with more than a little help from numerous friends all over the continent, were responsible for executing the Holocaust is denied by no one in his right or left mind.Nishidani (talk) 19:35, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Can someone do something about this fellow?[edit]

this revert is one of several by this chap, almost certainly a sock or a wikipedian under an earlier handle. He follows, only to revert, me to many articles, and as in the present case, ignores the simple technical issues: a statement made by Rabin in 1995, together with a source that fails RS, cannot be used to synthesize a judgement that Netanyahu's Jordan Valley views were those of Rabin. Good sources may well exist for this, i.e. one that relates Netanyahu's take directly to Rabin's, but editors can't make it up themselves.Nishidani (talk) 15:15, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Nishidani. I've already reverted the article once today and don't want to revert more even if it's a different revert, but I hope somebody else can do it. And an admin should probably look into the stalking. Jeppiz (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2015 (UTC)