Talk:Bere (grain)

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Section on "Yields" Needed[edit]

It would be beneficial to add information detailing what the yield of bere is per hectacre (or for this American, acres). I'm curious if bere's "low yield" compared to other forms of barley is why it is not as popular a grain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan Aquinas (talkcontribs) 20:49, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Highlands and Islands[edit]

(Moved here from User talk:Lou Sander):

I would remind you that the phrase "Highlands and Islands" traditionally refers to the mainland Highlands, plus the Hebrides, i.e. the recently Gaelic cultural area. The Hebrides are "Highland", but the Northern Isles are not. They don't have a Gaelic heritage.--MacRusgail (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

The cited source says "Vikings." It also says "Highlands and Islands." The Highlands and Islands article, linked to in the Bere article, includes Orkney and Shetland; it doesn't mention tradition or Gaelic culture, neither of which pertain to Bere, IMHO. I really don't appreciate being "reminded" (just a wee bit impolitely) about another editor's unsupported notions about correctness. Neither should such things just be dumped into the article, especially when they go against the sources and contribute nothing but redundancy. Lou Sander (talk) 16:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
To go "viking" means to go raiding. A Norse settler and a Viking are therefore not the same. A Viking is basically a Norse pirate, but is not an ethnicity. This is a common mistake made even by educated people.
Orkney and Shetland are not part of the "Highlands" - they only became part of Scotland in the 15th century, and have never used Gaelic as a community language. That's what the Highlands partly refers to. Otherwise the southern uplands, and Isle of May would be part of them. They aren't.
This is not my opinion, it is proper usage. Look it up.--MacRusgail (talk) 11:12, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
1) The source says "Vikings." It is not up to any editor to change it. 2) Please see Highlands and Islands. 3) Please stop edit warring. If there are differences of opinion, please discuss them here, then make the change after consensus is reached. Lou Sander (talk) 13:07, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
The source may well say "Vikings", but unless you are directly quoting it, it is not the proper term unless it specifically refers to pirates. I am well aware of the meaning of Highlands and Islands. I have spent enough time there, and some of my family comes from there! If anyone would know, I would. By the way, there is an additional issue. By the way, "Bere" or "Bear" is just an old generic Lowland Scots word for "barley" rather than any particular kind... It was used in most of Scotland, and was not particularly Orcadian--MacRusgail (talk) 15:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
One more time. You claim extraordinary knowledge of the meaning of "Highlands and Islands." The Wikipedia article Highlands and Islands is very clear that the term includes Orkney and Shetland. This has been pointed out repeatedly here. Also you have been politely asked to stop edit warring and discuss your notions here before including them in the article. Yet you repeatedly add "and Orkney and Shetland" immediately following Highlands and Islands. Please stop doing that. If you have some justification for it, other than your own ideas, please discuss it here. Please note also that your ideas about the meaning of "Highlands and Islands" are not at all mentioned in the H&I article, which includes a very clear description of the geography covered by the term, both currently and as far back as 1886. Lou Sander (talk) 04:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
I have quoted respectable references for the fact that "bere" basically just means "barley", and you have ignored them. Again, as I keep pointing out, the Northern Isles have never been part of the Gaelic Sprachraum. --MacRusgail (talk) 22:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Vikings[edit]

Please. This is getting tiresome. The cited reference says "Vikings." Claiming that "Norse settlers" are different from "Vikings," you change "Vikings" to "Norse settlers." If you can find a reference that says "Norse settlers," we can talk about which sort of people bere was introduced by. Until then, you are just imposing your own original research on the article, which is forbidden by policy. No matter how much you think you know about this subject, your knowledge can't get into the article unless is it published by a verifiable source.

Here are some other references, quite verifiable but possibly not as reliable as the one in the article, that say that "Vikings" introduced bere to Scotland: Orkney College, a distillery, a brewery, a guide to Scotch whisky, and on ad infinitum. Lou Sander (talk) 04:10, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not very hard to understand. A "Viking" is a raider. Norse is the ethnicity. They're often confused. Don't even try the "original research" chestnut, there are various howlers in the material you quote. You have quoted agricultural and liquor websites. I suggest you look at bona fide historical material as well. --MacRusgail (talk) 22:34, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
MacRusgail: Please stop making suggestions to other editors. Please stop using insulting language like "chestnut" and "howlers." If you have something to say, please say it politely and follow the rules. 74.1.175.146 (talk) 00:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Your talk page has several vandalism warnings on it, remarkable for so few edits. If you're not a "sock puppet" of you know lho.--MacRusgail (talk) 23:59, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
It's not very hard to understand. A "Viking" is a raider. Norse is the ethnicity. They're often confused. MasRusgall confuses them, but can't admit it. Many sources say that bere was introduced by Vikings. No sources say that bere was introduced by Norse settlers. Mac, who is not a reliable source, keeps changing the article to say that it was. If this isn't vandalism, one wonders what IS. (And no, we're not talking about East Germanic tribes here, any more than the Bere (grain) article is talking about ancient words for barley.) Lou Sander (talk) 06:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

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