Talk:Beta Israel

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Intermarriage with non-Ethiopians[edit]

I'm going to make edits to the discussion of intermarriage between Ethiopians and non-Ethiopians in the section "Ethiopian Jews in Israel". Because it would be hard to fit the explanation for my changes in a brief edit summary, I'm putting the explanation here. The last paragraph of that section reads: "Despite progress, Ethiopian Jews have so far largely failed to assimilate into Israeli-Jewish society. They remain, on average, on a lower economic and educational level than average Israelis. Also, while marriages between Jews of different backgrounds are very common in Israel, Ethiopians have largely resisted intermarriage. According to a 2009 study, 90% of Ethiopian-Israelis – 93% of men and 85% of women, avoid marrying non-Ethiopians.[124] A 2011 study showed that only 13% of high school students of Ethiopian origin felt "fully Israeli"." That gives the impression that the rates of intermarriage are low due to Ethiopian opposition to integration and the sentiments/actions of non-Ethiopian Israelis plays no part. When one actually reads the reference, it doesn't really say that. The word "resist" comes from the headline, not the article itself. The statistics on Ethiopian Israelis marrying within their community doesn't explain whether they are reluctant to marry outside their ethnic group or others are reluctant to marry or both (or some other explanation). In fact, the article goes on to note that 57% of Israelis say it is unacceptable for their daughter to marry an Ethiopian and 39% say it would be unacceptable for their son to marry an Ethiopian. The article also quotes Avi Masfin saying there are barriers to intermarriage among both Israeli society generally and the Ethiopian community. The text in our Wikipedia, therefore, gives a one-sided view in attributing low intermarriage rates only to the Ethiopian resistance. I'm making edits to better reflect the source article. --JamesAM (talk) 19:09, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello @JamesAM: I realize we're years into this article but I'm just finding/editing it. I have a very serious question to you: is your work here academic or do you have 1st hand experience living in Israel? Reason being, there is no "average Israeli". It is by all standards a very segmented and segregated society. On paper the vast majority of Haredi/Hassidim are below the poverty line and do not work. Yet they receive donations/assistance so the men can devote themselves to lifelong study/making children. Also, the Bedu are still semi-nomadic with little income above board (i.e. taxable) and many do not work. I don't take issue with your assessment that the Beta Israel are discriminated against/segregated/still have challenges integrating. But I think saying they remain "on average, on a lower economic and educational level" is misleading. Also, the generation born in Israel are actually higher ranking educationally (I don't have the stats but have seen/heard them several times). Trinacrialucente (talk) 05:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
You're misreading my comment. I didn't add the "average Israeli" sentence. That sentence predated my edit. I was simply quoting the full paragraph to show the full context of the prior version's discussion of intermarriage. Essentially, I felt the prior version misrepresented the article that was the source for inter-marriage statistics. The Wikipedia article tried to attribute low intermarriage rates to attitudes of Ethiopian-Israelis, but the source article itself seems to attribute the intermarriage rates to the larger society as well. I'm not an academic in the field of Israeli culture. Wikipedia is supposed to have citations to support its factual assertions. It's not supposed to be based on original, unpublished research. When I saw that the discussion of intermarriage didn't match the source article, I fixed it and explained my change. I didn't know anything about the accuracy of the economic discussion, so I simply left that part alone. I have no problem with you improving the article to fix whatever is factually wrong with it. --JamesAM (talk) 01:02, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Understood. I was just quoting from your text here on this talk page (not from the article). Trinacrialucente (talk) 19:42, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Beta Israel. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 02:29, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Genetics for ethnic groups RfC[edit]

For editors interested, there's an RfC currently being held: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups?. As this will almost certainly result in the removal of the "genetics" section from this article, I'd encourage any contributors to voice their opinions there. --Katangais (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Better images up-front?[edit]

Not to sound critical, but the article is frontloaded with photographs of uniformed IDF-members, but is this appropriate? Are Israelis of Ethiopian ancestry disproportionately represented in the Israeli military, or vice versa? I considered boldly switching them around myself, but moving any of the other (themed) images out of their sections would be problematic, and moving either of the first two images would lead to a dearth of image of actual people in the first few sections of this article on a group of people.

Thoughts?

Hijiri 88 (やや) 04:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I have seen no statistics on what percent of them are in the IDF, but from my WP:OR view, I seem to see a lot of them walking around in comparison to the number there are. The IDF only appears to be mentioned in one sentence in the entire article, which is Over the years there has been significant progress in the integration of young Beta Israels into Israeli society, primarily resulting from serving in the Israeli Defense Forces alongside other Israelis their age. This has led to an increase in opportunities for Ethiopian Jews after they are discharged from the army. Although its important, there is a chayal photographed right next to it. Definitely seems to be disproportionate to me. - GalatzTalk 12:47, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
@Galatz: I scanned the article and found that sentence myself, and so I was wondering if there really is enough of a significant tradition of Ethiopian Jews serving in the Israeli military to justify the only two images of random Beta Israel members being of uniformed IDF members. If slightly more of the article focused on that point, and if it was mentioned in the lead, then I could understand it, but at present it seems somewhat disproportionate. This appears to be an unintended side-effect of that massive blowout a few months back regarding "galleries" of images in the infobox; I was never a fan of those collages either, but here (and possibly elsewhere) removing it has had the effect of making all the images near the top of the page photographs IDF members. Since this is a problem created by an RFC on the ethnic groups WikiProject fairly recently, you think it would be a good idea to bring it up there? Hijiri 88 (やや) 02:03, 30 June 2016 (UTC)