Talk:Bierut Decrees

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The article contains serious errors[edit]

  • Either the article has been translated from German Wikipedia or it has been translated into German, an interesting question.
  • German POV, German references.
  • The only British reference is against this article.
  • No Polish reference. Are the POles still racially lower?
  • Quoted laws should be moved to Wikisources.
  • Xx236 (talk) 08:42, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Yes. It is indeed the case that this article started out as a translation from the German equivalent. That's what it says in the edit history page. The subject is an important one and there is no reason to conceal it from people who only want to - or only are able to - read in English.
As far as I can tell, there is not yet an entry on the subject in Polish wikipedia. Maybe someone will start one before too much longer. Maybe the information is already in Polish wikipedia but in an article with a different name and focus, so difficult to locate for those of us - includes me - who never got beyond basic tourist Polish. BUT if you, or if someone else reading this who understands Polish reasonably well are/is able to add more Polish perspective using Polish language sources, that would be the best possible answer to the issues you raise. I learned most of "my" history - at least the formal bits - in England, and although I had friends who had lived in Poland, they were by definition people who had left the country either because of the German interventions under Hitler or because of Russian interventions under Stalin. Inevitably, you should not expect to get a very full picture of what happened in a country simply by knowing people who left it, especially where they left under horrible circumstances. So I for one would welcome Polish perspective on this subject being incorporated by anyone who is able and willing to add it.
Regards Charles01 (talk) 09:09, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
Allow me to summarise your point - there exists a German article so we translate it without any verification and we obtain a Wikipedia article. No, you should have used reliable sources rather than translating German nationalistic propaganda.
There is no Polish Wikipedia article, because the alleged Bierut decrees was a series of different laws, only one of them a Bierut decree. One apple and five oranges aren't apples.Xx236 (talk) 09:36, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
If you think it needs improving, then I agree. Most wikipedia articles need improving. Wikipedia is a work in progress
If you think it needs improving, please improve it. It will be much better for your blood pressure than sniping angrily on a talk page, and you look as though you have the insights and knowledge to do a good job. Share the benefit of your knowledge with the readers.
Why not start by telling us, from a Polish perspective, what you understand by "a Bierut decree" (singular)?
But in some other languages the Bierut Decrees are generally referred to in the plural, and if this entry can highlight the different perspectives according to the different ways history is taught and remembered in different countries, then that is something that those readers still interested in learning new stuff may feel they need to understand better.
Best wishes Charles01 (talk) 10:50, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

According to the German Wikipedia there were two Decrees:

  • The 8 March 1946 Decree was decided by the Government and confirmed/ratified by the presidium of State National Council, Bierut not mentioned.
  • The same the 13 September 1946.
Summarising - no Bierut Decree at all.
You are right, that some nations accept German/Soviet POVs regarding Central/Eastern Europe and spread Nazi/Soviet/nationalistic propaganda.Xx236 (talk) 11:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

According to Bolesław Bierut: he was President of the Republic of Poland In office 5 February 1947 – 21 November 1952, when the subject of German people in Poland was over. My opinion is that Germans extrapolate their knowledge of Czechoslovakia to Poland, finally they are all Slavs so who cares. But Czechoslovakia was an independent country and Benes was the president. Poland was under Soviet occupation and Bierut was a Soviet governor who pretended to be a politician.Xx236 (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

The neutrality claims are fascinating, particularly since they try to label this as German nationalist propaganda. The article in its current from, at least, it a blatant attempt to trivialize the process by which the people living in massive swaths of present-day Poland were ethnically cleansed, their possessions and property seized, 700+ years of history erased and replaced with Poles from elsewhere. This is consistent with articles that touch upon this subject across Wikipedia. There is a small group of Polish nationalist wikipedia editors who seem to have made it their mission to present their twist on history across this site. I get that it is deeply disconcerting to think of your country as build on that kind of foundation. For better or worse, that doesn't change the truth. The Polish revisionism and revanchism in this article and across Wikipedia seems consistent with the nationalist and authoritarian tendencies that have taken hold over present-day Poland, a place where fundamental pillars of democracy such as an independent judiciary have now been eliminated. The article in its present form does no service to truth or history and might as well be deleted.

German names of Polish laws, "Altpolen"[edit]

  • Polish laws should be named in Polish or in English but never German. I have replaced the German names with links to the laws.
  • "Altpolen" is a German word which mean "Old Poland". This is an English Wikipedia so I'm not sure if German words deserve to be used here.Xx236 (talk) 11:13, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Alternative history..[edit]

The article states that ″Most of the territory transferred to Poland from the prewar Germany in 1945 came from areas that had been part of the historic state of Prussia and subsequently of Germany since the partitions of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. This was the case with most of Pomerania, Silesia and the eastern part of Brandenburg, including major cities in postwar Poland such as Szczecin/Stettin and Wrocław/Breslau.″ – What is the connection of this areas with the Partition of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth..? Sounds like they didn't belong to it before the Partition, and this is wrong.. --Jonny84 (talk) 19:04, 21 June 2017 (UTC)