Talk:Bilge Khagan

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Comments[edit]

"Bilge is even better known, however, for advising his successors that the power of the T'u-chüeh came from their nomadic life and that to settle in agricultural communities on the Chinese border would weaken them" (Britannica 2006). Pelase refactor if you feel like it. --Ghirla-трёп- 21:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Tonyukuk[edit]

I feel that Tonyukuk should also be mentioned in this article. (Not only his stelae but rather his position as chancellor.)Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Name of the article[edit]

His name is accepted widespread as Bilge Khagan. Khagan is the most accepted form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khagan Please correct the name of the article. Sbasturk (talk) 06:15, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Bilge Qaghan is the common name in English language. You can easily control it with google books. Takabeg (talk) 10:37, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
No it is not. FYI Khagan is not a name but a title of imperial rank. Maybe you should check the WP page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khagan . After your Google research if you still think Qaghan is more accepted form please feel free to change it again or start a discuss in the article 'Khagan'. (Google search results for Bilge Qaghan: 27600 Results. For Bilge Khagan 1100000 results.)Sbasturk (talk) 10:46, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Articles in wikipedia themselves, and normal google search are not Identifying reliable sources. If you want and you can prove that the common use should be "Bilge Khagan", you can request move. Takabeg (talk) 10:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Of course Google searches are not a reliable source. But I just want to make you notice that Bilge Khagan is a more accepted format. Although they are not reliable 1100000 vs 26000 search results mean something to me. Anyway I listed some more reliable sources here. Please take a look. Btw I know there are also books containing his name as Qaghan but as I mentioned before, Khagan is widespread for example WP also has this title in this format.--Sbasturk (talk) 11:32, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Sources for Bilge Khagan

BOOK Göktürk Rulers: Bumin Khan, Bilge Khagan, Kul Tigin, Tong Yabghu, Qilibi Khan, Buri-Sad, Tardu, Shetu Khan, Kürsat, Taspar Khan, Ilteris Sad BY General Books LLC http://books.google.de/books?id=NNycSQAACAAJ&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK Heritage of Scribes. The Relation of Rovas Scripts to Eurasian Writing Systems BY Gabor Hosszu http://books.google.de/books?id=TyK8azCqC34C&pg=PA267&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

BOOK Qarqorum [sic], Erdeni Juu, Orqon-u kȯndei-yin dursġal [sic]-ud BY S. Ichinnorov http://books.google.de/books?id=peAMAQAAMAAJ&q=bilge+khagan&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RCLgUKi-EaOE4gSEmoHYDA&redir_esc=y

BOOK Turkic Rulers: Babur, Alp Arslan, Humayun, Ulugh Beg, Bumin Khan, Bilge Khagan, Bleda, Kerbogha, Kilij Arslan I, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Timur BY Books Llc http://books.google.de/books?id=M5JESwAACAAJ&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK Turkic Rulers: Babur, Alp Arslan, Humayun, Ulugh Beg, Bumin Khan, Bilge Khagan, Bleda, Kerbogha, Kilij Arslan I, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Timur BY Books Llc http://books.google.de/books?id=M5JESwAACAAJ&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK A History of Power and Social Justice in the Middle East: From Mesopotamia to Globalization BY Linda Darling http://books.google.de/books?id=u2sxtycuGvoC&pg=PA86&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

BOOK Kirghizistan BY Dominique Auzias, Jean-Paul Labourdette http://books.google.de/books?id=JtatpdsT7LcC&pg=PA32&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RCLgUKi-EaOE4gSEmoHYDA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

BOOK ORMUS the Secret Alchemy of Mary Magdalene Revealed: Historical and Practical Applications of Essential Alchemical Science BY ORMUS http://books.google.de/books?id=sj_bBoDtP9YC&dq=bilge+khagan&source=gbs_navlinks_s

BOOK Standorteigenschaften von Wallanlagen im mittleren Orkhontal BY Christina Michel http://books.google.de/books?id=rEjwf6lYBL0C&dq=bilge+khagan&source=gbs_navlinks_s

BOOK Anthology of Orkhon Turkic Inscriptions: Kültigin, Bilge Khagan, Wise Tonyukuk : Texts, Transcriptions, Translations--English, German, French, Russian, Turkish, Hungarian, Kazakh, Mongolian and Chinese Languages BY М Хурмэтхан, Хурметханы Буркитжан, Ш Бира http://books.google.de/books?id=LZAjGQAACAAJ&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK Mongolia Travel Guide BY Lonely Planet http://books.google.de/books?id=usW9q0lReCQC&pg=PT233&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8B7gUKXCPI_64QTliYGoAQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK Eurasian File, Issues 126-156 BY Turkish International Cooperation Agency, 2000 http://books.google.de/books?id=mVAjAQAAIAAJ&q=bilge+khagan&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK The Turks: Early ages BY Murat Ocak http://books.google.de/books?id=HGBtAAAAMAAJ&q=bilge+khagan&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y

BOOK Mongolia: The Bradt Travel Guide BY Jane Blunden http://books.google.de/books?id=u1Y-51tTJ78C&pg=PA416&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

BOOK Contagious Couplings: Transmission of Expressives in Yiddish Echo Phrases BY Mark R. V. Southern http://books.google.de/books?id=dGhFQFJZUIYC&pg=PA313&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

BOOK Historical Dictionary of Mongolia BY Alan J. K. Sanders http://books.google.de/books?id=5JN83EDDLl4C&pg=PA857&dq=bilge+khagan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ex_gUOSXDab14QTQxoGoCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=bilge%20khagan&f=false

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Cúchullain t/c 16:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)



Bilge QaghanBilge Khagan – Some of the sources can be found above. Another major source is Encyclopædia Britannica [1] where it is written as

...khagan, or great khan...

Besides as I mentioned before in the talk page, Khagan is not a name but a title of imperial rank. Please take a look to the discuss Name of the Article above. --Relisted HaugenErik (talk) 17:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC) Sbasturk (talk) 06:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Oppose – According to google books research, "Bilge Khagan" -Llc (min. 21 hits) is not common name in English language. Bilge Qaghan (min. 38 hits) is more common. Takabeg (talk) 05:27, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment: There seems no consensus for the move yet it has occurred, done by a relative newcomer. Investigating at User talk:Qara xan#Move of Bilge Qaghan. Andrewa (talk) 22:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment: I'm relisting this discussion to hopefully get more input. It seems that on Wikipedia we generally write the word Khagan, so it would be interesting to see if there is any reason why this article should be any different. I've undone the move; please do not move this again until this discussion is closed. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
  1. ^ "Bilge." Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopædia Britannica Deluxe Edition. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2012.