Talk:Boaz Moda'i

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wiki -links[edit]

The term Hasbara is linked to the wiki article which explains what it is. People can click on the link - there's no need to provide(one-sided) sources that attempt to explain what it is in this article, if they do not mention Moda'i. Brad Dyer (talk) 16:26, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


Embassy events not by Moda'i[edit]

Yes, Moda'i is the ambassador, and that the source of his notability. That does not mean any event happening at the embassy, or any conduct by other embassy employees, belongs on his biography. If a reliable source links Moda'i to the event - by , e.g mentioning that he failed to discipline the employee, or approved of the action, then fine. But simply taking something that another person did and dumping it into this article because Moda'i is the ambassador is a violation of several Wikipedia policies, including WP:BLP, WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. Brad Dyer (talk) 19:08, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Now I found it. Beg to disagree. To address your comment: he never did discipline her, she continues in the very same position. Personally, I don't understand how the Irish gov't accepts them to stay on. Mind that it's always the AMBASSADOR who gets called for reprimand by the host's ministry of interior, no matter who from the embassy staff does the faux pas (to call it diplomatically). It's 100% his responsibility. WP rules (I do prefer logic, since those rules are under permanent scrutiny & change by users if I got it right), whatever they are, probably refer to privacy etc. He's a public figure, only relevant for WP users as Israel's ambassador to Ireland, period - but I'm repeating myself, please see what I'be written on your talk page. Arminden (talk) 21:11, 17 March 2015 (UTC)Arminden

I disagree with the statement 'Whatever happens within the embassy, is relevant - for him & his WP web page.'. The article is his bio, and his work at the embassy is relevant - and even that, only to the extent that reliable sources have commented on it. Not everything that happens within the embassy is relevant to the ambassador's bio, just like not everything that happens at Google is relevant to Sergey Brin's bio, and just like not everything that happens in the US government is relevant to Obama's bio. If a reliable source makes the same observation you just did - that he could have disciplined Ms. Moda'i, but didn't, that he's thus responsible for her actions, that the Irish ministry of interior should have reprimanded him for her actions- THEN it can be included. Otherwise, its just a Wikipedia's editor personal opinion, which can't be included per WP:OR. Brad Dyer (talk) 21:17, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

First, bringing here what I've left on your talk page:

Hi Brad. What "Talk" did you mean? I couldn't find it, pls. help.

I do stick to my argument (See Infobox "title": "Israeli Ambassador to Ireland". He's in charge, he's responsible. That is how it works in every representative hierarchy. He can discipline or fire a deputy overstepping his rules.)

Mrs. Moda'i has no power of threatening demonstrators, starting shaming campaigns etc. OUTSIDE the embassy framework. She has no platform for denigrating the "Irish masses" other than that of her embassy job. And Mr. Mod'i IS the ambassador. The buck stops with him, that's that.

Why add her to his website: he does not represent anything to anyone on WP apart from his role as ambassador. Whatever happens within the embassy, is relevant - for him & his WP web page. It's not his LinkedIn page or private CV. And EMBASSY = EMBASSY TEAM. The fact that she is his wife MATTERS too, no need to go overboard trying to be "academic" about it. They discuss things at home as much as on the job.

Benjamin & Sara Netanyahu, M. & Raissa Gorbachev, Nicolae & Elena Ceausescu... That's how it works. Once the ladies choose to have a share in their husbands' political career, it becomes a team, ONE UNIT. She does smth. good or bad - he takes the credit or criticism, too. WP is not about denying the obvious, or is it?

Of course WP editors are motivated by political or private sympathies and inclinations (please excuse me for being blunt, but beating around the bush only wastes time), so I'd like to ask you: honestly, what makes you spend time on this - to me quite obvious issue - time & again? In German there's a negative legal term, "Sippenhaft", broadly meaning that one's family or clan is made responsible and liable for any member's mistake. Are you just trying to be extremely politically correct and avoid any shadow of "Sippenhaft", or do you want to remove whatever part of criticism one can somewhat claim doesn't belong here? Both reasons are legitimate, I'm just curious.

Personally, I think both Moda'is are acting in a shameful, undiplomatic way, actually you know what? forget the "PC-talk": wacky is the word for it. I see no way how one can split this whole issue into "him" & "her", quite objectively speaking. Whatever. Waiting to hear what moves you. Cheers, Arminden


Second: you're kidding, right? That Google stuff? He's an AMBASSADOR, not a CEO. She is his DEPUTY, not just one of thousands of employees.
Reliable source commenting? Israel's Channel 10 TV station certainly is reliable and quotable.
So your issue is with the reference. Fine, dealt with. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 21:54, 17 March 2015 (UTC)Arminden

What is the Channel 10 comment that you would like to use? The one you have re-inserted (without consensus) does not mention Boaz Moda'i at all.Brad Dyer (talk) 22:07, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

We have consensus, Brad Dyer. Arminden and I agree that if an Ambassador hires someone to be a direct report, and that direct report does something unrelated to the job (runs over a pedestrian or marries a king), then it doesn't belong in the boss's bio. But when that boss is directly supervising the person as they work on a joint undertaking, then yes, it belongs in his bio. If there's any question, then it's better to include rather than to delete. So stop deleting. VanEman (talk) 07:20, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

No we have no such consensus, you and arminden agreeing and me dissenting is not a consensus. if you can show me the Wikipedia policy that says a person's bio should include everything his direct reports do that is related to their job, I will have support it. Otherwise, this violates numerous polices, including WP:BLP, WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. Brad Dyer (talk) 16:23, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Brad Dyer: Look at the Wikipedia article on Bill Clinton. Then look at how many times Hillary's name is mentioned. No, they don't just say he married her. The article talks about the many projects they have worked on together. Same with the Modai pair. VanEman (talk) 16:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Let's indeed look at the Clinton article. The mentions of Hillary come from biographies of Bill Clinton, that , as you note, talk about 'projects they have worked on together.' Conversely, the Clinton article does not mention things Hillary did on her own, like her current run for presidency. If you find a biography of Boaz Modai that mentions these events something the Moda'i couple did togetehr, feel free to include them. Otherwise, they are out. Brad Dyer (talk)

The article does not talk about any things that Moda'i's wife did while she was not under his supervision. Only things she did while in her role at the Israeli Embassy in ireland under his supervision should be included. VanEman (talk) 18:06, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

No, this article should only include events that reliable sources have associated directly with Boaz Moda'i. You last revert both violates the 1RR restriction, as well as uses a false edit summary. Pleas self revert it. Brad Dyer (talk) 18:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

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External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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